HUHM?

[lcdc1]

ok, yeah and thanks for the IEP advice and legalities, I did not realize that. I am on the other stuff then, have to check into the testing stuff.

[lillian]

IQ testing is one of the most controversial areas of testing. The WISC-IV results are often lower for kids with LD's and/or language processing issues (though, this does not always hold true, and some kids with LD's and language processing issues do very well on the WISC-IV), so many parents end up fighting school districts' testing results and requesting IEE's, based on the WISC-IV alone. Still, it is the most common IQ test given by schools across the country. The Woodcock-Johnson Cognitive is the second most commonly given test. Did she have this test? If so, the psych should be able to tell everything s/he needs to know with that test.

When my son was recently evaluated by a top-notch LD researcher, he said, "I'm giving your son a brief IQ test. His IQ has already been tested. We know that he is cognitively able to learn and produce grade-level work, so why continue to test his IQ? All a longer IQ test will do is tire him out, and I want him alert and focused for his achievement testing. I'm going to give him a brief test to assure that previous IQ testing is correct in saying that he has at least a normal IQ, and that's all I need to know." And that's true. I am in total agreement.

If you want her to have the WISC-IV, then I guess you can request it, but it's not necessary for anything they are doing at the school, so the school can decide to give it or not. Most likely, the school will be shocked that a parent actually wants this test!!!

[lcdc1]

yeah lillian she had the other test done, the johnson one. I will find out more from my physc about it and why.

I have my suspicions about any IQ testing (can't put it in words like you do!). I personally think they can be influenced by a lot of things, but I guess they tell something that physc and counselors like to know to quantify stuff. When I was a kid, I got so tired and frustrated with testing, I just refused to do them after awhile.

MYbe my doctor is looking at my family unit and the challenges of an ADHD parent, because some of the discussions I have with him are hitting a wall with some home stuff and some of it sounds like ADD tendencies on my kids part to him. Also we talk about the school stuff and he has seen all her testing results and heard my frustrations related to that. I guess I just need to be clear on what the test is and what he thinks it is that needs to be quantified!

My thoughts are these, if it helps her, I would do it, if it is just to label it some more, I am not going to do it. My own issues and hesitations don't need to take away from her getting help, but, well, it is just confusing to me and I figured some of you would know or have some input to help me dissect it and make the correct decison.

[lillian]

If she was given the full WJ, the psych should be able to tell everything he needs, for any type of ADHD/ADD consideration--long-term and short-term memory, processing speed, executive function (an optional subtest), etc. If she has these scores on the WJ, and he is still requesting the WISC-IV, then, chances are, the only test he's been trained to interpret is the WISC-IV, and that's not your or Ran's problem. It's his. He can take a class, buy a book, or do some research on the internet. I most certainly would not subject Ran to more testing for his benefit.

[lcdc1]

yeah, lillian, see that is what my doubts were kind of like, why more testing when she is already found eligible and on an IEP? They test again in a year and a half, I think if she stays good until then, I could discuss the testing then!

She is a great kid, good work ethic, I don't think more testing will change anything with the school right now, if she is ADD, that is what I cannot get my mind around if it is contributing to her math challenges? If she has ADD, the school would likely not care or miss it bacuse she would be the typical girl scenario of innattentive, she does not act out, she does not present problems in the classroom, she is respectful at school and to her coaches, hence the challenge, do I just not worry about that part now?

[lillian]

Lcdc,

My son is ADD-Inattentive, and he does not act out, gets along very well with his teachers and peers, and is not anything close to a behavior problem. It is because of these things that I have struggled so with my son's ADD-Inattentive dx. As I am finding out, while my son is being assessed by some of the top experts in the country, though, is that his ADD-Inattentive dx is being based on his memory scores, his processing speed scores, his rapid naming scores, his organizational difficulties, and his planning difficulties. Memory is the big one, though. It's the one that the researchers look at the closest and discuss the most in depth.

I could write pages about my son's memory deficits, and it these deficits that give him fits in math. His mathematical reasoning is out the roof, but his memory for equations and times tables and his being able to rapidly produce math problems is limited and seems to be based on how good of a day he's having. When he's "overloaded" from too much work (as I am finding is a HUGE red flag for ADD-Inattentive), being tired, or just having a bad day for no apparent reason, he can't do anything in math. In fact, it's in math that I see the ADD, more so than any other subject. No doubt about it. And when my son was on ADD meds, it was only math that showed a positive correlation to meds and academic performance. The meds did not help his writing or reading, but they did help his math, somewhat. They were not a miracle cure, at all, not even close, but he didn't show the same inconsistencies he shows off meds, where one day he takes a test and makes a 90, and the next day he takes a test and makes a 65, and, basically, the tests are covering the same material.

If you want to "look for" ADD in your daughter's testing, look for low fluency scores across the board (math, reading, and writing, for with ADD, low fluency is more likely to be across the board, and with LD alone, it's more likely to be only in the subject of weakness), low processing speed scores, low memory scores (long-term recall or long-term memory scores are more commonly associated with ADD, but kids who have LD's often have poor working memories, as well), and low rapid naming scores (if she has ever had one of these tests).

[lcdc1]

ok, thanks for that input, that makes sense to me too. I will go back myself and look at her testing, but she has always been high in language and verbal stuff, not much fluctuation there.

It is strange in math testing and what she does, if a formula or numbers are involved, confusion. If you test her or ask her about geometry and theory without numbers and formulas involved, she is crazy good at it and very visual that way.

It is just a lot for a parent like me to take in, but I am going to look at the testing summaries again, there is about 12 pages of it and compare what you said. I think I will wait until they retest her before 10th grade. I just have to think ahead before the tranisition IEP meeting to high school whenever that will be? I will state my concerns and not understanding then and maybe they will give me some input too. thanks lillian, I am glad some of you all understand this - it is like roller skating up a 90 degree slope at times!