Dyslexia/ADD?

[jj]

Carol,
It sounds like the last thing your son would want right now is more testing. Poor kid.

It is my understanding that a neuropsych who specializes in developmental or pediatric practice (not one that specialized in head trama - unless there is a reason you'd want that) will do his own intense testing and will also use all other tests by the school or other doctors and put all the puzzle pieces together. A neuropsych has a much better understanding of all aspects like physical issues, psycholgical issues and cognitive issues.

A good neuropsych will be your manager or advocate, in a way, and will help you decifer all the test and help you know what needs to be done in the IEP.

It does sound like your son did have had some good testing but I think it would be worth trying to find the best recommended neuropsych you can. I think you may be able to get some answers. But please keep in mind there are bad neuropsychs out there so you need to do your homework trying to find the best one, if you should decide to do this.

I would ask your son's doctor for a referral. I believe since he is DX'd dyslexic it is considered a medical condition and a reason for referral and the school may have to pay for it but they may fight it. (Anyone...correct me if I'm wrong)

I hope that helps a little and maybe someone else can help me explain a bit better. (I'm at work so my concentration is a bit disrupted)

[lillian]

You start this thread by saying that your son is currently in an academic placement that is serving him well and controlling his behavior well, and you are happy with the placement. That's what is important for children with special learning needs--correct placement and/or intervention that will help the child do well academically and behave properly. Finding that correct placement and/or intervention is often very difficult, so congratulations for finding it!

You then ask if students with dyslexia are ever in general education. The answer is that MOST children with dyslexia are in general education, for it is believed, from the research that I have read, that only one-in-ten children with dyslexia will have severe enough dyslexia to receive an IEP. Of those children, even fewer will have dyslexia severe enough to warrant resource placement. In the state where I live, children identified with dyslexia are rarely given IEP's for dyslexia. They are serviced under the state's dyslexia program, which is under 504. With the new RTI model coming into effect across the country, only children with very severe dyslexia will be given IEP's, for if they respond well to proper intervention, then they probably will never be labeled with dyslexia. There's a paper on Schwab about this, and I will find it and post it for you to read. You have to read it closely, really paying attention to what it is saying, reading between the lines, but the attitude of the researcher, Torgesen, who is considered one of the reading research gurus in this country and a huge supporter of RTI, is that early intervention needs to be done consistently, without a label being given to the child. If the child does not respond to the intervention, then SPED placement will be necessary. He admits in the paper that this will probably exclude the placement of children with "less severe" dyslexia. Indeed, it will!

Now, one thing that oftens happens is that great emphasis is put on remediating the child's reading, and writing and spelling fall behind in the process. This is what happened with my son. His IEP is for writing. Although the experts in the field of dyslexia disagree as to whether or not my son has dyslexia, children with dyslexia receiving IEP's for writing is quite common from the sixth grade on, and I have never met a child who has an IEP for writing that was in resource because of it. My son has always been in general education classes, when attending public school, which he has for the last three years--sixth, seventh, and eighth grades.

ADD/ADHD and dyslexia...The research indicates that between 30%-50% of children with dyslexia have co-existing ADD/ADHD. Do dyslexia and ADD/ADHD overlap? Certainly. And trying to decipher where one ends and the other begins can be difficult. Because my son also has ADD, I can share with you what I have been told about this over the years, by the people who have evaluated him. Take it as you will:

Both ADD and dyslexia come with memory deficits. Long-term memory deficits are more common with ADD, than with dyslexia, but both disorders come with short-term memory deficits. Both ADD and dyslexia come with processing and fluency deficits. Processing deficits and fluency deficits across the board (reading, writing and math) are more common with ADD than with dyslexia. I have some issues with that, but I'm just relaying what I have been told. Inattention is not directly related to dyslexia, but it is to ADD. The problem here, IMHO, is that "inattention" has to be defined, and frustrated teachers will describe a student's inability to respond to intervention as inattention. It's important to note when a child is "inattentive" in the teachers' eyes. Is it only during reading and writing activities? If so, it may not be ADD, at all, but, rather, a child who cannot access the curriculum well and is avoiding the task or simply unable to do the task. Though inattention is not related to dyslexia, it can be related to CAPD, another disorder that commonly co-exists with dyslexia. If your child has been dxed with dyslexia and is inattentive, I think CAPD needs to be ruled in or out.

So...That's my very long-winded response ;D.

[lillian]

Here's a link to the paper by Torgesen:

www.fcrr.org/TechnicalReports/Dyslexia_Technical_Assistance_Paper-Final.pdf

[carol]

Thank you all!

All your info has been great. Some of it I knew, and some of it I did not. If my son is in special ed today, will he always be in special ed? He is approved for placement up to 3 years at this school. We know it is too soon to tell, but I cannot see him back in a 30 kid or more classroom. We like that his is finally learning. It is slow, but last year he did no work at his other school. He had a rough patch early Dec., but has been doing work since the new year.What I'm asking is;if we want him to remain in spec-ed,are they going to try to reintigrate him,even if we don't think it's the thing to do?

[lillian]

If you put him back in public school, yes, they most likely will put him back in a general ed classroom because schools are slowly, but very surely, doing away with resource classrooms for most students in special education in the upper grades (junior high and on). At the high school where my son will be attending, resource is for students who are working many years behind their peers. I'm talking three, four, or more years behind. A child, who is only a couple of years behind, like your son is, is integrated into the general ed classroom. As far as private school is concerned, I don't know. It would depend on the school, what they have to offer, and what their philosophy is.

[carol]

As an educator in my school district, I just cannot return Gage to that mayhem. There are many unqualified and frustrated individuals in the field. I do think that most, if not all teachers, have the best intentions, but somewhere along the way, developmentally appropriate practice gets thrown by the wayside. Maybe, my feelings will change as Gage progresses, but for now, I may opt for homeschooling, poosibly on the computer. My husband works a 5PM to 1AM shift. We want to have socialization, but we do not want him to be mistreated. Our school district is in turmoil. We are thinking about moving and Gage's education may dictate where we will go.

You guys have been helpful.

[charliegirl]

I know exactly what you mean Carol. I homeschooled my son last year for that very reason. The teachers cared and tried but they had gotten so into the "this works for the majority so if it doesn't work for the kid it must be his fault" mentality. My son was shaking constantly and would cry in class, etc. If the school you would have to send him to is like that, it would hurt him to send him.

I am keeping an eye on the stats for different schools and talking to people who have kids in them now. There is a chance we will be moving and our son's school will play the most major part in the decision as to where.

[lcdc1]

lillian. can I ask a personal question about your son? What testing determined his long term retrieval deficit and what are the numbers that defined that?

Are neurophyscs the way to go to get the final testing done when you are in a situation of not totally understanding your kids needs?

[lillian]

Lcdc,

The Woodcock-Johnson Test of Academic Achievement has a long-term retrieval score, and my son always scores below average (below the 25th percentile) on this section of the test. Anytime you are looking for areas of concern, you need to look for areas below the 25th percentile, for this is when your child starts moving away from average. Of course, the lower the score, the more reason for concern.

Testing memory is tricky. I hate to keep using my son as an example, but I've had concerns about his memory for many years, and his recent testing is really beginning to shed some light on his memory issues. For example, he's always been thought to have an excellent working memory, but I've never understood how that was possible with ADD and a reading disorder. What we are finding out is that his working memory is superb for digits, but when words are tested, his working memory scores plummet. He goes from the 85th percentile and higher on digits, to the 35th percentile and lower on words. He recently took a test that is a combination of rapid naming and long-term memory that is written, instead of oral, and he scored in the 1st percentile! His IQ is 120, and he scored in the 1st percentile. This has nothing to do with motor skills, either, for his motor skills are above average. It also has nothing to do with spelling because the test does not penalize for spelling. It sheds a lot of light on his writing disability. And, yes, it took a neuropsych to find this.

What I am discovering with my son is that the memory testing he has had done in the last few months is telling me more than any of his previous testing, which never tested his memory thoroughly. I'm beginning to think that his memory and rapid naming deficits are his major issues.

[katiekat]

Lillian, Do you think that 7 1/2 is still too young to be tested and/or diagnosed with dyslexia? I think at this point he should be able to identify all letters without a problem. His teacher told me that if he still was having difficulty after Christmas that would be when I should start being concerned. Now it's Feb. and he still cannot recognize letters correctly. At the last I&RS meeting they tell me this is acceptable through 2nd grade. I disagree. How can you ever learn to read if you dont even know your letters?
I want to move as well. There are several reasons but yes...the school district is definitely one of them.