Dyslexia/ADD?

[lillian]

KK,

I think you are going to have a very difficult time getting a dyslexia dx that everyone will agree with for Sean because he's a complicated child with a complicated history, as is my son. If you read Torgesen's paper carefully, you will read that anything that could interfere with a child's learning the phonetic system of the language has to be ruled out before the dx is given. It's a very conservative definition of dyslexia, but it's important to understand that Torgesen is promoting a definition that is being widely supported in the scientific community, as I have recently found out with my son being evaluated by a scientific researcher.

[lcdc1]

Feb 17, 2008 9:43:02 GMT -5 lillian said:

Lcdc,

The Woodcock-Johnson Test of Academic Achievement has a long-term retrieval score, and my son always scores below average (below the 25th percentile) on this section of the test. Anytime you are looking for areas of concern, you need to look for areas below the 25th percentile, for this is when your child starts moving away from average. Of course, the lower the score, the more reason for concern.

Testing memory is tricky. I hate to keep using my son as an example, but I've had concerns about his memory for many years, and his recent testing is really beginning to shed some light on his memory issues. For example, he's always been thought to have an excellent working memory, but I've never understood how that was possible with ADD and a reading disorder. What we are finding out is that his working memory is superb for digits, but when words are tested, his working memory scores plummet. He goes from the 85th percentile and higher on digits, to the 35th percentile and lower on words. He recently took a test that is a combination of rapid naming and long-term memory that is written, instead of oral, and he scored in the 1st percentile! His IQ is 120, and he scored in the 1st percentile. This has nothing to do with motor skills, either, for his motor skills are above average. It also has nothing to do with spelling because the test does not penalize for spelling. It sheds a lot of light on his writing disability. And, yes, it took a neuropsych to find this.

What I am discovering with my son is that the memory testing he has had done in the last few months is telling me more than any of his previous testing, which never tested his memory thoroughly. I'm beginning to think that his memory and rapid naming deficits are his major issues.

That is good information as I try to understand all this in relation to Ran and the issues there. Our kids just seem kind of reverse in the respect that Ran is math issues right up front and not really and language writing issues until now on the whole organization thing. And that is good from you and jj to understand that a nuerophyc probably is the best way to cut to the chase on some of this. For our situation, I just do not want to dink around too much as she enters high school, time to get done to it all. So thanks for your willingness to talk about your son, it sheds light to things for me.

[carol]

lillian,

Do you know how to interpret the scoring on a psychoeducational evaluation? I had it explained to me, but it was still difficult to understand. I can dig it out if necessary.

[lillian]

I'm not a professional diagnostician, and I do not have any formal training in testing, other than the one class I took in grad school, but I am a certified SPED teacher and have tried to learn about the testing because my son has received so much of it. I've even taken some of the tests myself, to try and get a deeper understanding of what was being tested. I will be glad to read the testing and give you some of my thoughts on it.

[jmb3]

Carol,

Welcome. I know your frustrations.

My son is now 12yrs 7th grade. His 4th grade year was a nightmare. I spent up to 4th grade trying to get him to read and tried everything I could think of before being finally diagnosed dyslexic with some ADD. It takes time to finally get a diagnosis.

We tried medicine, however, we did not have good luck with them. Unfortunately, the side effects out weighted the behavior differences for us. We have modified his diet, (watching artificial flavors, artificial colors and sweets.) Tried fish oil for a while. (This helped us some.) This has helped along with maturity and addressing his reading/educational needs.

Once we started addresses his educational needs, his add behavior at school eased to a more normal level. We moved him to a LD school. We are considering transitioning back to normal school next year part-time.



So the medicine choice is still up to you.

If you haven't read the information sheets at the International Dyslexic Association I would recommend it.
www.interdys.org
They might be helpful. It explained it is normal that dyslexics can understand it one day, and the next day it be frustrating. It's just the way the brain works for dyslexic people. Some days are just better than others for them.

Please let you son know that he is OK. He just learns differently. Be sure to let him you accept him for who he is. Get a book from the library on dyslexic to see he's not alone. The Hank Zipzer by Henry Wrinkler, books are wonderful, for this age. (They might be available on tape from your local library.)

I would try to get the school or a tutor that uses multi-sensory reading program like Wilson, OG, or Barton. It may take a few years, but it should help. And you will notice that his spelling will probably improve with this too. Linda-mood bell might help, but they are very expensive.

Encourage him on the his strengths what ever they are.
Get books on tape for his school work. This should help take some of the pressure off of reading until he catches up.

He shouldn't be classified as emotionally disturbed. He should qualify for services under OHI (Other Health impaired) - this is where ADD fall into according to the new NCLB and the IDEA.

Patience ... One step at a time.

[carol]

Well, I feel somewhat better about the decisions I am making for him since I have utilzed mostly all of your recommendation. We have read some of Henry Winkler books. The diet is difficult since he is so picky, but I have introduced some new foods and took out some which I feel exacerbates it. I have all of the IDA literature. I have him in art therapy to assist with self-expression. I do agree. He should have gotten this SED label. This was his previous school being slanderous b/c we opted not to medicate and they wrote him off not putting any services in place. He has a little emotional backlash which have improved somewhat since he does not attend his old school. I have my days I guess just like he does feeling melancholy about the situation. I was an excellent student ranking number 1 at one point in my high school class. I hate to see him struggle with this. It just does not seem fair. I continue to take one day at a time as you said and try with all my heart to repair his self-esteem with praise and encouragement. Thank you.

[rakuflames]

Feb 16, 2008 9:17:34 GMT -5 carol said:

Do all children who have dyslexia have ADD/ADHD? Doesn't dyslexia encompass some attentional difficulties? My 10yo is learning in his special ed. classroom. He is completing work and the IEP works for him. I have been told by a friend and others that I am doing him a disservice by not giving him a med to help him focus better. His learning would not be so slow. I know this in my heart, but I do not wish to give him a med. He is responding to the therapy and I want him to learn the coping skills. Am I really doing him a disservice by not giving him something to help his learning along, if in fact, it actually will. The small learning environment seems to be working. He is not exhibiting the same behaviors he once had in a larger classroom.

Carol, this is something I know a lot about. I taught special education for many years and one of my daughters had a learning disability (math).

When a child has AD/HD, if you know what to look for you will see the symptoms in many parts of his or her life. If dyslexia (to me that means reading only) is the cause, you'll see attentional problems when the child is trying to read. That makes sense. I would have trouble paying attention to a talk being given in German. I don't understand German. Of course a the attention of a child with reading problems would struggle with attention while reading, especially if the material was above his or her instructional level.

Don't give him a med to help with reading. It won't work. However, if he DOES have AD/HD, then treating that effectively will make it easier for him to work on reading. Diagnosis first, then meds. Any decent diagnostician will immediately look for signs of AD/HD in areas not affected by the dyslexia, which is how you will get your answer to this.

I hope that helps.

My name is ... Susan.

[rakuflames]

You asked, "Will ritalin or like drug get him to read?"

Only if !) he really does have AD/HD, and 2) the AD/HD interferes with learning to read. I have AD/HD but it didn't keep me from reading. Both my daughters have AD/HD. One had trouble with reading in first grade but overcame it. The other suddenly struggled with textbooks in sixth grade -- because she was not on meds and reading very superficially. I had to teach her how to read for information even though she was an outstanding reader up until then.


So it varies tremendously. In my experience, many (not all) kids with AD/HD often have very little patience for using phonics, which makes them very impulsive readers.

[carol]

Susan, This was helpful. My son is in a special school for children who have emotional issues. I thought his emotional state could have played a part in his lack of reading ability. He also exhibits a lack of motivation and this is not just with reading. The psychologist stated he exhibited a strong fear of failure and this not trying and giving up attitude hinders him as well. Two months and counting with some assistance from coromega, he has regulated his emotions and behavior. There have not been occasions of him shutting down. His annual IEP is at the end of March and hopefully I will have a clearer picture of how he is progressing. I think in the 6 months he has been at this school, he has progressed in math considerably. Because he behavior was so poor at his other school, his math fell behind too. That gap is starting to close. He won't read out loud for me and I do not pressure him. I read to him. Sometimes, he will do it spontaneously, but it is usually short lived. His fluency seems to be his biggest problem. He seems to have a better grasp of decoding unknown word since he got the Orton-Gillingham tutoring. I took him privately for this. His new school claims they implement another method of orton-gillingham and incorporate in the curriculum. I am not entirely sure I agree with this. I will see what happens at IEP and go from there. Technically, as his ER states, he is supposed to get 1:1 tutoring 45 mins per day.
I might post back to you with more questions if that is alright.
Thanks so much.

[rakuflames]

Feb 29, 2008 19:14:13 GMT -5 carol said:

Susan, This was helpful. My son is in a special school for children who have emotional issues. I thought his emotional state could have played a part in his lack of reading ability. He also exhibits a lack of motivation and this is not just with reading. The psychologist stated he exhibited a strong fear of failure and this not trying and giving up attitude hinders him as well. Two months and counting with some assistance from coromega, he has regulated his emotions and behavior. There have not been occasions of him shutting down. His annual IEP is at the end of March and hopefully I will have a clearer picture of how he is progressing. I think in the 6 months he has been at this school, he has progressed in math considerably. Because he behavior was so poor at his other school, his math fell behind too. That gap is starting to close. He won't read out loud for me and I do not pressure him. I read to him. Sometimes, he will do it spontaneously, but it is usually short lived. His fluency seems to be his biggest problem. He seems to have a better grasp of decoding unknown word since he got the Orton-Gillingham tutoring. I took him privately for this. His new school claims they implement another method of orton-gillingham and incorporate in the curriculum. I am not entirely sure I agree with this. I will see what happens at IEP and go from there. Technically, as his ER states, he is supposed to get 1:1 tutoring 45 mins per day.
I might post back to you with more questions if that is alright.
Thanks so much.

I'm glad it was useful, Carol!

What is an ER? If you have it in writing that he is supposed to get 1:1 tutoring 45 minutes a day you should make sure he's getting it. It's not that easy to get.