ADHD IQ and Acheivement tests help

[nlubin]

I need some help understanding my daughters test scores. She was struggling last year in kindergarten. The teacher thought is was immaturity, but we tested just incase. It was decided that she would repeat K. So these test results below are from her 1st year in K and her 2nd year in K.

She was tested last year (5 1/2 yrs). She was given the STanford-Binet Intelligence Scale. Her scores were:

FSIQ 101 (53%)

NON VERBAL 105 (63%)
fluid reasoning 13
knowledge 10
quantitative reasoning 10
visual-spatial 13
working memory 9

VERBAL 97 (42%)
fluid reasoning 10
knowledge 10
quantitative reasoning 9
visual spatial 11
working memory 8

Her achievement testing (WIAT-II):

word reading 95 (39%)
numerical operations 89 (23%)
spelling 93 (32%)

She also did the Bender Visual Motor Gestalt 99 (47%). Wang CPT showed that she might have ADHD.

So now a year later (6 1/2 yrs), she was doing ok in K but not as well as the teacher would expect given it is her 2nd time. We looked at last years results again and conferenced with the teacher. she is now on focalin 15mg. Teacher says she notices a big difference. She was tested again (IQ test only).

WISC-IV results:

FSIQ 104

VERBAL COMPREHENSION 93 (32%)
similarities 7
vocabulary 7
comprehension 12
(word reasoning) 11

PERCEPTUAL REASONING 108 (70%)
block design 8
picture concepts 15
matrix reasoning 11
(picture completion) 7

WORKING MEMORY 91 (27%)
digit span 8
letter number sequencing 9
(arithmetic) 8

PROCESSING SPEED 123 (94%)
coding 16
symbol search 12

Her recent results seem to show some great strengths and some great challenges. I don't see that in her previous scores. I expected that testing her again with the focalin would offer more of an accurate picture of her, given that the concentration part was taken care of. Now I feel more confused. Are her most recent scores indicative of a learning disability? Are the high highs a result of the medication? Why is there a disconnect between now and then? Please help, I greatly appreciate it.

[lillian]

IQ tests are only one small part of the greater picture, when discussing learning difficulties. Achievement test scores, classroom performance and work samples, homework challenges, and teacher/parent observations tell much, much more. Has she received any recent achievement tests? Has she received any state testing? What issues is your daughter having that the teacher and you are observing?

[nlubin]

she has not had any state testing and no recent achievement tests. the medication was a result of her not doing well in school. the teacher said figityness but also mentioned their might be a learning disability and bounced around the idea of her being evaluated by the school system, i think for a ied. she is not at the top of her class and it is her 2nd time in K. I would expect she would be further along, that is what the teacher echoed as well. areas that she is struggling with that others in her class can do: can clap words, like home work (2 claps), can count/write to 100, uses initial caps then lowercase, not sure of vowel sounds as they fall in words (given picture of rope, should write r o p, gets confused on the middle sound).

I do realize that the test scores are only a part of the equation. I am however looking at the scores for clues as to other directions I should look more closely into. I don't know much about interpreting these scores and my appointment with the psychologist isn't for 2 weeks. I was hoping someone might have some experience and shed some light on things for me.

I especially wonder why her scores are all over the place (low lows and high highs). my son who has no troubles in school was tested for a private school, same test WISC IV, and his percentile scores were more similar.

[charliegirl]

The school will want to do their own evaluation before they give her an IEP. Since they are suggesting it now, that would be the best place to start. Their testing will be more comprehensive and should enable you to see the areas of suspected ld more clearly.

[lillian]

Looking at your daughter's IQ scores don't tell me much because her scores are pretty close together, other than processing speed. Her processing speed is very high for someone with ADHD and a suspected LD. It's unusually high, actually.

Now, some people will tell you that the difference in her PRI and VCI is indicative of a language-based LD, but if you look closely at her scores, you will see that one score, Picture Concepts, is what is really high and brings up the PRI score. Her other PRI scores range between 7 and 11, which is pretty much the same on VCI, where the scores range between 7 and 12. So, on closer inspection, there isn't that big of a difference between her VCI scores and her PRI scores.

I urge you to be cautious of anyone, who tries to say whether or not your child has an LD, using only an IQ test. This is someone who does not understand Special Education and LD's, regardless of how much the person may say s/he does. It's against Special Education law to determine a child's eligibility based on an IQ test alone. I'm not sure what the psychologist's point was in giving her an IQ test and no other testing. Again, though, because this psychologist did, listen with great caution to what the psychologist has to say.

[jmb2]

Some children are ready for school before others. Perhaps, your child just wasn't ready for school the first time around. And is now just getting the concepts of letters and numbers.

I was confused, your child can or can't clap words, write to 100, and do simple words?

If she can, I wouldn't necessarily worry about the vowels just yet. I would get her some extra help and see if it improves. This is just Kindergarten not 1st grade.

I have seen a 2nd grader at the beginning of 2nd grade, not be able to read and then jump to normal level with intensive help by the end of 2nd grade.

Although, this doesn't rule out a learning disability. Do trust your instinct, if something isn't quite right. Although, it might take some time to figure out what it is.

Be sure to keep all your paperwork and document your concerns. That way you can track her progress, and show why you are so concerned.

[rakuflames]

Feb 21, 2008 11:08:28 GMT -5 nlubin said:

I need some help understanding my daughters test scores. She was struggling last year in kindergarten. The teacher thought is was immaturity, but we tested just incase. It was decided that she would repeat K. So these test results below are from her 1st year in K and her 2nd year in K.

She was tested last year (5 1/2 yrs). She was given the STanford-Binet Intelligence Scale. Her scores were:

FSIQ 101 (53%)

NON VERBAL 105 (63%)
fluid reasoning 13
knowledge 10
quantitative reasoning 10
visual-spatial 13
working memory 9

VERBAL 97 (42%)
fluid reasoning 10
knowledge 10
quantitative reasoning 9
visual spatial 11
working memory 8

Her achievement testing (WIAT-II):

word reading 95 (39%)
numerical operations 89 (23%)
spelling 93 (32%)

She also did the Bender Visual Motor Gestalt 99 (47%). Wang CPT showed that she might have ADHD.

So now a year later (6 1/2 yrs), she was doing ok in K but not as well as the teacher would expect given it is her 2nd time. We looked at last years results again and conferenced with the teacher. she is now on focalin 15mg. Teacher says she notices a big difference. She was tested again (IQ test only).

WISC-IV results:

FSIQ 104

VERBAL COMPREHENSION 93 (32%)
similarities 7
vocabulary 7
comprehension 12
(word reasoning) 11

PERCEPTUAL REASONING 108 (70%)
block design 8
picture concepts 15
matrix reasoning 11
(picture completion) 7

WORKING MEMORY 91 (27%)
digit span 8
letter number sequencing 9
(arithmetic) 8

PROCESSING SPEED 123 (94%)
coding 16
symbol search 12

Her recent results seem to show some great strengths and some great challenges. I don't see that in her previous scores. I expected that testing her again with the focalin would offer more of an accurate picture of her, given that the concentration part was taken care of. Now I feel more confused. Are her most recent scores indicative of a learning disability? Are the high highs a result of the medication? Why is there a disconnect between now and then? Please help, I greatly appreciate it.

Hi. My name is Susan, and I taught children with AD/HD and/or learning disabilities for many years. I served on the diagnostic team.

Something really jumps out at me.

With her scores, she shouldn't have struggled in kindergarten the first time. Unfortunately kindergarten teachers love to attribute school struggles to immaturity but usually that word explains very little. I'm not opposed to all kindergarten retentions but if often doesn't fix nearly as much as we hope it will.

So this means that 1) something is going on with your child and 2) no one knows why.

Medication does not make huge changes in test scores by itself. Unfortunately IQ type tests tend to be more accurate the older a child is, and there are some significant differences there. If she were my child, I would want the school to test her for a learning disability. Most states (not all, notably NY and CA) compare academic performance to best estimate of intelligence.

If you want to do this, you have to put the request in writing. That doesn't have to be a complicated letter, but they can (and in fact should) ignore a request that is spoken only. So if you want to do it, write them a letter.

I hope that helps.

Susan

[deebee]

I would make sure that as part of their evaluation that they include speech to rule speech or language processing as a problem.