Math, Visual Spatial Problems or ADHD

[lillian]

Oh, I'm so sorry you're going through this .

This is the deal...Sometimes, psychs won't give out scores because it gives the school a chance to hand over the testing to lawyers, who can pick it apart. The psychs will wait until called in for mediation or due process, before they will actually turn the scores over. I don't think, however, that this is what happened with this psych because there wasn't even a dx of ADHD? You had to ask for it to be added, right?

[charliegirl]

I sent a request for information on this to find out if it is covered under HIPPA laws since you sent him for testing for learning disabilities rather than for psychological counseling. They don't have to give information on psychological counseling but I can't see where this would be considered that. Hopefully we will find out within a week.

[deebee]

From my online research, it appears that psychologists are not supposed to give "raw test scores" to clients, but can give to another psychologist who is licensed to interpret results.

I'm going to try sending a release of information, specifically requesting that all scores be sent to the school psychologist as well as the psychologist in charge of the place my daughter receives psychiatric/counseling/ Psychosocial Rehab services.

We'll see how this goes......

[charliegirl]

I accidentally deleted Rakuflame's post. I managed to get back to what she said but can't repost it in her name. CG


Why do you need the raw scores? However, all those places your daughter gets help should have those scores.

Has anyone explained them to you clearly yet? I might be able to help you if there are parts you don't understand.

[charliegirl]

www.wrightslaw.com/advoc/articles/tests_measurements.html#12

The subtest scatter is what deebee is looking for. Without seeing the scores of the tests averaged together (subtests) to determine the composite score, you don't really know whether someone scored very low on one subtest and very high on another. That could show up as them having an average IQ when there is a significant difference. The low subtest score could mean a disability which is being masked by the composite score.

[lcdc1]

I cannot believe you cannot have those scores. I have all my kids scores and the subtest breakdown! I don't get it? I asked for them and they gave me copies.

[deebee]

rakuflame,

This would be like getting a report card, and all they say is that the student is "passing" all classes. Passing could be anything between an A and an D-.

The whole purpose of testing is to get a better understanding of the child. It's hard to do this when the evaluator gave few scores, and then is basing everything compared to 82 IQ (that's another debate altogether as I don't believe the 82 IQ is representative of my daughter's ability). My understanding is that only an ss score below 67 (more than 15 point deviation) would be considered a problem, and that anything above that would be accepatable

The NEPSY test includes the following subtests and core domains:
Subtest
Design Copy
Phonological Processing
Memory for faces
Tower
Auditory Attn
Speed Naming
Arrows
Memory for Names
Finger Tapping
Visual Attn
Comprehension of Instructions
Imitate hand position
Visual Motor Precision
Narrative Memory
Core Domain Scores:
Attn Executive:
Language:
Sensorimotor:
Visuospatial:
Memory:
The only NEPSY information my daughter's report gives is that: Variability between verbal/ nonverbal with nonverbal being lower, performance is “not deficit when compared to her level of overall intellectual ability”

The Wide Range of Memory Test involves the following subtests and indexes:
Picture Memory
Design Memory
Ringer window
Verbal Learning
Sound Symbol
Visual Learning
Story Memory
Sentence Memory
Number/Letter
Verbal Memory Index
Visual Memory Index
Learning Index
General Memory Index

I was only told that Auditory Verbal, 64%
Visual Memory, 21%
Attention/ Concentration Index, 1%, substantially impaired


The following tests were not even acknowledged in the report:
Index Finger Tapping Test
Speech Sounds Perception Test
Seashore Rhythm Test
SIB-R
I guess the assumption is that if something were out of the norm, it would be mentioned. Well. I know for a fact that my daughter's SIB-R should have elevated scales for maladjustment because she has severe depression and is acting out

[rakuflames]

Mar 8, 2008 9:57:31 GMT -5 deebee said:

rakuflame,

This would be like getting a report card, and all they say is that the student is "passing" all classes. Passing could be anything between an A and an D-.

The whole purpose of testing is to get a better understanding of the child. It's hard to do this when the evaluator gave few scores, and then is basing everything compared to 82 IQ (that's another debate altogether as I don't believe the 82 IQ is representative of my daughter's ability). My understanding is that only an ss score below 67 (more than 15 point deviation) would be considered a problem, and that anything above that would be accepatable

The NEPSY test includes the following subtests and core domains:
Subtest
Design Copy
Phonological Processing
Memory for faces
Tower
Auditory Attn
Speed Naming
Arrows
Memory for Names
Finger Tapping
Visual Attn
Comprehension of Instructions
Imitate hand position
Visual Motor Precision
Narrative Memory
Core Domain Scores:
Attn Executive:
Language:
Sensorimotor:
Visuospatial:
Memory:
The only NEPSY information my daughter's report gives is that: Variability between verbal/ nonverbal with nonverbal being lower, performance is “not deficit when compared to her level of overall intellectual ability”

The Wide Range of Memory Test involves the following subtests and indexes:
Picture Memory
Design Memory
Ringer window
Verbal Learning
Sound Symbol
Visual Learning
Story Memory
Sentence Memory
Number/Letter
Verbal Memory Index
Visual Memory Index
Learning Index
General Memory Index

I was only told that Auditory Verbal, 64%
Visual Memory, 21%
Attention/ Concentration Index, 1%, substantially impaired


The following tests were not even acknowledged in the report:
Index Finger Tapping Test
Speech Sounds Perception Test
Seashore Rhythm Test
SIB-R
I guess the assumption is that if something were out of the norm, it would be mentioned. Well. I know for a fact that my daughter's SIB-R should have elevated scales for maladjustment because she has severe depression and is acting out

But that is how it works. The only way to challenge these scores is to challenge the IQ. The best way to do that would be to get a private evaluation. IF they get a score high enough that she would have qualified based on ACADEMIC peformance on an individually-administered test of reading, written expression and/or math, then you can challenge it. You would have a fair chance of winning, and if you did, they would have to pay for the private evaluation.

Once you get past the IQ and academic tests, the other tests only go to learning style, which unfortunately is irrelevant according to IEP law unless you ALSO have significantly depressed academic performance - when compreed to IQ. The exception to this is language testing, which also could have qualified her for help -- but also would be compared to IQ.

Survey results for things like depression are, by themself, not diagnostic, and typically schools do not diagnose things like depression, so I would urge you to not be upset by that finding.

It all comes down to the best estimate they can get of her IQ, because what IQ is, is an estimate of how successful the child will be in school. That's what it is.

[deebee]

rakuflames
This last assessment is an independent assessment. I think this is the end of the line for testing right now as this assessment was covered by Medicaid, but she only gets so many hours per year. We are in the process of having an OT evaluation done, but unfortunately this is all I have to work with right now.

I don't know if I'm misunderstanding the IEP categories and how you qualify then.

I thought that to qualify for OHI, it's based on medical conditions that cause the student to have "having limited strength, vitality or alertness." My daughter is diagnosed with Cyclothymia (a form of bipolar), ADHD, and sleep disturbance. All three of this impact her ability to focus and pay attention in class.

So could the school still say this is not relevant because her achievement scores are higher than her IQ?

[rakuflames]

Mar 9, 2008 19:54:59 GMT -5 deebee said:

rakuflames
This last assessment is an independent assessment. I think this is the end of the line for testing right now as this assessment was covered by Medicaid, but she only gets so many hours per year. We are in the process of having an OT evaluation done, but unfortunately this is all I have to work with right now.

I don't know if I'm misunderstanding the IEP categories and how you qualify then.

I thought that to qualify for OHI, it's based on medical conditions that cause the student to have "having limited strength, vitality or alertness." My daughter is diagnosed with Cyclothymia (a form of bipolar), ADHD, and sleep disturbance. All three of this impact her ability to focus and pay attention in class.

So could the school still say this is not relevant because her achievement scores are higher than her IQ?

I don't see how they could claim that. In my opinion bipolar is a very significant diagnosis and one that really should qualify a child for an IEP. While Cyclothymia may be "more mild" than bipolar, we're talking about a child here. Children by definition have limited ability to cope with such stressors. Then you add the AD/HD and ... gee... why not help this child? Sleep disturbance will aggravate anything else going on.

I think IQ should be irrelevant when you're talking about cyclothymia and AD/HD.