The 4 Hour Math Night-a Multipart Question!

[elizam]

The world of ADHD is all so confusing to me! I've already described how my dh does not want to pursue an evaluation for our teen ds. But I so often tear my hear out...and then, things settle down and I begin to second guess myself again!


last week I began keeping a journal and noting what went on with ds's behavior, school issues, homework, etc. Nearly every day involved forgetting something important. At the beginning of the week, he actually wrote in his planner--STUDY FOR SCIENCE! But did he ever? No. He never knew when the test was or brought home the book. After skimming thru a book at the bookstore the other day, I got the impression that even professionals can consider this kind of behavior as sheer lack of motivation.

One night it took ds **4 hrs** to do his math. Of course, this involved a lot of piddling, leaving the room, starting stuff with his siblings, arguing with me, trying to make small talk with me, doing one problem and then forgetting the formula to do the next one which looked exactly the same....He acts really weird on nights like that. Wild, giddy, mean, silly....in the afternoon he is so dead you can't get him to work. He usually falls right asleep and nothing can wake him.

Fast forward to the weekend. After literally months of procrastination, he finally got serious about memorizing his piano pieces for judging this weekend. The pieces have to be memorized and played before a judge. He typically does not have enough time many nights to practice b/c of the above HW scenario, and even on good days has trouble motivating himself to practice, although he does not want to quit piano at this time. His teacher says he is very good and could be GREAT with more practice and self-confidence. He amazes her with his ear for it and his ability to rise to the occasion at the last minute.


Well....he went to the piano and had a terrible practice with much yelling, playing bits of the songs over and over and over again, and banging the keys in frustration (if your're familiar with "Don Music" from the old school Sesame Street, that's my ds)! he said to forget it, no way was he going to play Saturday for the judge. After a while, he settled down and said he'd practice more the next morning and that's what happened. He woke up, ate, practiced, did poorly (or said he did; he wouldn't play thru the whole way but hammered himself over his mistakes), and then said he knew he wasn't going to do well for the judge.

I was sick for him. He hates to think of getting anything less than "Superior", the highest rating. He's gotten "Superior" every year except his first year with that teacher--that year he got an "Excellent", the next highest score. You'd think he'd gotten an "F" at school. He never acts all that concerned about grades, though...even though, deep down, he wants them to be good.


He came out of the room after playing. I had walked away so I wouldn't hear how he did. He told me he got a "Fair" and I believed him. Wow, I was sad for him...........

Then he held up the certificate! SUPERIOR! I nearly called him a little sh*t right there in the parking lot! We laughed till we nearly cried and went out for lunch. Such a great day. He shared how he wants to do better in school and lots of things like that.


When he truly WANTS to succeed, he can--in piano. He even got a couple of tackles the one and only year he tried Pop Warner Football and everyone said he was the one most likely to quit. He was 12, had no experience, and smaller than most of the others, not to mention geeky.


He cannot achieve good grades. ANd it mostly boils down to FORGETFULNESS and NOT RETAINING INFORMATION.


His teacher that is hard on them and he doesn't care for decided to let them have a work make up day Fri. instead of two zeros on missing homework, he now has two 100s (I think)! If she and other teachers ALWAYS extended that kind of grace, he could be honor roll material. He got a C on a recent test--the one he was supposed to study for, but could have made a B or A if he'd remembered to study.


They say there'll be even LESS grace in high school. But he does so much better with teachers who are more creative and give them a cushion, the ones who seem to want them all to make it. Being yelled at for being too slow at his locker or being late b/c he had to use the bathroom just makes him mad and discouraged. He forgets stuff but isn't allowed to go before school, or back in the hall after school. And so on and on....


Dh and now my mom say he MUST get motivated and organized and that it is OBVIOUS he can do well when he WANTS TO, so he cannot possibly be ADHD. my mom said that about the piano thing. How could he memorize pieces, even perfecting them the week before he has to play them, if he had a brain problem??? She also says it's b/c dh is too mean to him and he feels defeated (I agree he does have that issue, but...?) Also dh feels that the schools just dont help kids enough, and I sort of feel that way, too. I get so discouraged when I read how these kids that don't do well are treated. Schwablearning message boards make me cry! If kids don't do well, they so often get less than fair treatment and very little help to overcome their issues! So I have to medicate him to overcome that? It just seems so unfair sometimes.


I've tried diet modifications, Omega 3s, everything. I'm ready to go to the next level. But part of me is like my naysaying dh and mom. This is hard.

Maybe he'll just "wise up" and do better in high school???

We had the painful realization the other day that he is the ONLY one in our church that doesn't make the honor roll. That's enough to embarrass a parent! And some of the kids we know who DO make the honor roll don't seem all that smart! People used to comment how SMART ds seems to be.

I'm sorry to rant and rave. I feel so alone as a mom with a kid who wants to be MORE and CAN'T, but acts like a wisecracking or bored stiff with life burnout the worse he does in school.

[crazyhouse]

Wow I don't know where to begin!!!

There is a 50% chance of any child with ADHD having a learning disability. If you don't get him a diagnosis, he can't get the help that he needs in school. Your son sounds like he does great things and is very gifted. In some areas he may exceed the above and beyond of another child, and in other areas he does OK. In the real world that's OK. It helps prepare a child for the ups and downs of life.

You should also never compare other children to your son, it tends to effect a child's self esteem. Honor roll is nice for some children but all the children I have ever known never made honor roll but thet tried, and they got honest grades B's and C's. B's and C's are great if they worked hard for them. A's really aren't A's if you cheated for them, and most children when thier families do have higher expectations, they tend to feel pressured into cheating.

From personal expierence in school, I was a child left behind. My mother worked 50 hrs a week and had no time for teacher conferences. She was in denial over me not having a problem. I had countless report cards that said "She needs to buckle down" My mothers denial and the school districts over crowded facility ultimately helped me suceed at failing! It is easier to get help sooner rather than later, and once that education has passed him by after 18 it gets harder and more expensive to go back and sieze it! Don't wait till it's too late.

One more question what does your husband have to gain or loose from your child being tested for a ADHD or a learning disability? Who is it going to hurt? Will this rearrange your lifestyle? Will your family feel imbarrassed?

I'm sorry if you find this a little over the top but these are things that I have either seen in many different situations or have expierenced myself. Someone once told me while I was in high school, get your education now while it is free because after you turn 18 it could cost you a lot of time and money that you can never get back. They were right

[jfla]

Hi elizam,

I agree with crazyhouse so I will try not to repeat that. One thing of great importance is that as kids go up in grades so are the demands and more are identified as LD or Adhd. So that something that wasn't much of a problem earlier, can be at a higher level.

You mentioned that you have tried everything and are ready to go to the next level. It sounds like that is what is needed for your son to be successful and realize his potential.

I couldn't help but smile when I read your letter, because he sounds so much like my son, even the piano part. Your mom said, "How could he memorize pieces, even perfecting them the week before he has to play them, if he had a brain problem??? " Very possible!!! Different parts of the brain. Yes my son is forgetful, distractable, impulsive, does not retain some information and a whole lot more. He is also passionate about two things. Math and music. My son also has a good ear, has a habit of not practicing until the last minute and then doing well. Last year he was the accompianist for the high school jazz choir and I think he drove the teacher crazy with this habit. I stayed out of it hoping he would get flack from her. Problem is he always came through quickly...oh well. He is now working on a concertina he composed and has written parts for the school orchestra to play.

Once he was diagnosed and later put on medication, his school career turned around. (This was in second grade)

He is a very successful, hard working and a highly motivated high school senior. In high school we finally did a complete evaluation and were given some names and numbers of the areas where we had seen difficulty and had remediated for him. Those areas are still areas of comparitive weakness for him, but he can excell in those areas too. (An example is getting A's or A-'s in Advanced or AP English with an LD in Rdg and Language)Although he was diagnosed ADHD early, a complete evaluation earlier than high school would have been a good idea so that teachers would have responded to his needs which I could see so clearly.

So I think my son is a success story after diagnosis, medication, a lot of hard work and remediation. He is a high school senior with a recent college scholarship offer. I can say that none of this would have been possible had he not been diagnosed and started medication. His full diagnosis is ADHD combined type, Learning Disabilities in Reading and Language, borderline gifted, dysgraphia. Oh yeah, he is finally learning to write in cursive at age 18. Wonders never cease to amaze me.

It is definately to his advantage to be evaluated. It can only benefit him, not harm him.

[misty]

elizam said:

When he truly WANTS to succeed, he can--in piano. He even got a couple of tackles the one and only year he tried Pop Warner Football and everyone said he was the one most likely to quit. He was 12, had no experience, and smaller than most of the others, not to mention geeky.


He cannot achieve good grades. ANd it mostly boils down to FORGETFULNESS and NOT RETAINING INFORMATION.

This is true off ADDers...If they are really interested in something, they have a sort of tunnel vision. My daughter LOVES science & she never forgets to turn anything in for that class, plus she pays attention closely in class. But in math where she has an LD, she hated it & has never done well at it, she didn't used to try at all & routinely forgot to turn in papers.

elizam said:

They say there'll be even LESS grace in high school. But he does so much better with teachers who are more creative and give them a cushion, the ones who seem to want them all to make it. Being yelled at for being too slow at his locker or being late b/c he had to use the bathroom just makes him mad and discouraged. He forgets stuff but isn't allowed to go before school, or back in the hall after school. And so on and on....


If kids don't do well, they so often get less than fair treatment and very little help to overcome their issues! So I have to medicate him to overcome that? It just seems so unfair sometimes.



Maybe he'll just "wise up" and do better in high school???

If your son has a learning disability, theres no way he'll just "wise up" in HS...in fact, he'll get further & further behind. If you have him evaluated & he DOES have an LD, you can get into his IEP allowances for extra trips to his locker & other organizational modifications!

elizam said:

We had the painful realization the other day that he is the ONLY one in our church that doesn't make the honor roll. That's enough to embarrass a parent! And some of the kids we know who DO make the honor roll don't seem all that smart! People used to comment how SMART ds seems to be.

I agree with whoever replied saying it hurts the childs self esteem to be constantly compared to other kids & always be the one to come out lacking. Who cares if the kids of your church friends seem "smarter" than your son! Judge him on his own merits & hold your head up high at church! He can't help it he's not on the honor roll...he needs to be told that he is just as SMART, he just learns differently & he needs to know that you are/will do whatever it takes to help him find his learning style.

When my daughter was DXed with her LD's & finally got into learning support where they knew how to teach her, you should have seen her relief! She was happier , started turning her papers in more & more consistently & actually started to WANT to learn math!

elizam said:

I'm sorry to rant and rave. I feel so alone as a mom with a kid who wants to be MORE and CAN'T, but acts like a wisecracking or bored stiff with life burnout the worse he does in school.

Sadly, kids who have ADHD or LD often do take on the role of class clown to cover up the fact that they are doing such poor work. It makes them feel accepted to have all the kids laughing!

I know you feel alone, but you aren't alone. We will help you through & support you on your way. I really think a full evaluation will give you some of the answers you seek....I hope you can talk DH into it soon!

[crazyhouse]

I just want to add a little something more.

In high school I was in concert choir for 2 years and in play production for 2 years. I came home with A's and B's in these subject. I could give you a name to just about any tune off the radio within the first 10 seconds of the song. I had such an overwhelming love for music, because it came so natural. In math I suffered miserabaly day after day feeling like I was being sent to some sort of unjust torture. In certain areas of school I was normal in other areas I was miserable. Whenever they sat all the kids down for tests to see where your child qualified in the state. I did well! Which is why I was always told you know this stuff! You are just being LAZY! My junior year I was unofficially diagnosed with Dyslexia (in the third quarter) and at that point after not getting enough credits over a period of 3 years and struggles at home, IT WAS TO LATE! Don't wait

[Linda]

I can't add any more here that has been said except for one thing. You are your childs best advocate because you know him better than anyone!

Get him evaluated and fight for what he is due!

[charliegirl]

elizam said:

Dh and now my mom say he MUST get motivated and organized and that it is OBVIOUS he can do well when he WANTS TO, so he cannot possibly be ADHD. my mom said that about the piano thing. How could he memorize pieces, even perfecting them the week before he has to play them, if he had a brain problem???

We had the painful realization the other day that he is the ONLY one in our church that doesn't make the honor roll. That's enough to embarrass a parent! And some of the kids we know who DO make the honor roll don't seem all that smart! People used to comment how SMART ds seems to be.

Its common for ADHDers to thrive in areas they are very interested in. Music is his forte and should be encouraged.

If he is good in sports, they should be encouraged also.

Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. You have no reason to be embarrassed because he isn't on the honor roll. I am quite certain that most of the honor roll kids will never be as talented and skilled musically as your son is already, no matter how hard they try. Some people seem to be great at everything they do but thats rare.

Celebrate and encourage what he is good at and does well. Get him diagnosed and an IEP if that is what he needs to do better in school, but remember he does have strengths and has already found something he is very good at. Many people go through life and never find anything they excel at. When people criticize his less than stellar school performance, you can point out that musically, he is very gifted and you are proud of him as he is.

Possibly you could come up with music related rewards to encourage him to be more organized, get his work in, etc. That won't make it all easier for him but it should encourage him to get at and complete the things that he can do but require a lot more effort from him so he puts them off whenever possible.

[lostmyshoe]

Elizam, I do hope you can get the evaluation. When my daughter was diagnosed with ADD she was put on a 504 plan in school. It has been such a big help. A 504 plan stipulates exactly what needs your child has and the school is required to meet those needs. So far we have had some wonderful teachers who have been so helpful. Becca sits in the front in all of her classes and if she seems to lose focus the teachers quietly que her in and make sure she is on the same page as everyone. I also keep in contact with them so we know what is going on in the classroom. It made all the difference in the world getting that evaluation and I hope you will be able to get one too and have the school be able to help you. I went on my own and got the evaluation done so I was in drivers seat the whole time. That is what worked for me. I went to the school with my psychologist and all of my documentation and sat down with them and we worked out the plan. I hope everything works out as well for you. You're not alone either, please know that. Lots of support and friends here.