The ODD getting to me

[misty]

jill

Well due to the research study and being off meds she has not only been giving us a hard time but her teachers as well. At the open house they were happy we attended and talked to my husband and I a long long time. She is refusing to comply and being very stubborn and the teachers all 3 seem so nice and want to work with her. I feel they are going to burn out eventually even with the help and support of the study. I am at my wits end!

Due to her not doing her work in school and being defiant she had 1 1/2 hours of homework this weekend and it took us 6 hours yesterday to do it inbetween shutting down meltdowns and darn right refusals. She went to bed early last night and will again tonight for not picking up the living room her toys, no consequence seems to work she does not care. Every thing is a struggle and i am burning out fast I love her dearly and am mad at her and do not want her to be a monster for her teachers. Any advice? I am planning to talk to the study people and her psychologist for help. I tried talking to my brother the minister and his response was it is all a matter of discipline and he feels I give in to her all the time why she is doing what she does and lectured me on how to parent. I do discipline and stick to it he has no clue what living with what we do that sometimes we lose our fight and want to give up this is how i feel right now. I also feel like I want to beat her butt red and will have a hard time stopping why i am venting online instead to calm down to handle the monster child. I am ready to tell the study she needs her meds back if things do not improve I can handle her but for the school, if work does not get done I go through h-ll. I did tell her she wants to keep dancing and join girl scouts and gymnastics that if this continues she will miss class after class to do her work even if it means for dance she misses the recital. I will stick with it.


misty

Wow, I'm not sure I can give much advice but I do know that sticking to your guns is extremely important. Also, coming here to vent is better than hollering at her, I know this from experience! And we are always here for you.

When Shannon was younger she never picked her toys up either (she still doesn't always but at least now its contained to her room & not in the main living area). I found I could get her to work with me much easier than having her do it all the time. Plus, it dropped the stress level & I wasn't yelling at her as much. And she was still helping do the work.

In school does your daughter have an IEP or a 504? Maybe you could get some adjustments made for class work. Even before my daughter had her IEP the teacher was willing to cut some of her assignments back so she could get a sense of completion without always feeling like the only one who couldn't finish the work.


annem

Oh Jill ... I am sorry !! ... One thing I do know is that this is a great place to come and VENT ... so big hugs to you !! ...

How old is your dd??

One thing I do know from my own experience is that there will always be people who believe that "discipline can solve everything" ... and for a certain amount of kids there is probably some truth in that ...

For the other bunch (my now 18 year old son included) ... heavy discipline just made him angry and resentful .... we always had to be a whole bunch more "subtle" than that !! ... so my first piece of advice is do not feel that being a "strict disciplinarian" would be the answer .... IMHO this could very well make things worse ..

I am however personally a great believer in praise, praise and more praise ... I think THIS can pay huge dividends ... and even when you don't think you can find anything to praise for ... look at everything very closely, find something (however small) and home in on that ..

Keep us posted !!


Charlie Girl

I agree with AnneM. Praise her for what you can find to praise her for even if you have to look for something.

I know its hard and I don't understand what is going on with the sudy exactly. Talk to them. Ask them how important it is that she do her homework no matter what, what behavior to push her to grow in and how much, etc.

Remember that much of her behavior is ADHD and ODD and isn't her fault. You can't be constantly punishing her for what is beyond her ability. It will only make her feel unacceptable as herself.

Until you talk to the psych for the study, try to figure out what she can reasonably be expected to do, then push her to accomplish that and try to get a bit more. If you expect her to be as capable as she was on meds, it is only going to frustrate you both and weaken her self esteem.

You have a precious little girl and its up to you to protect her. If you reach the point where you really don't think the study is helping her and is actually hurting her, pull out of it and tell them why. There is no good reason for torturing her. Hopefully they will try the low dose of meds and it will make the difference


lostmyshoe

Hi Jill,

Gosh I'm so sorry you are going through such a hard time. I think the girls have pretty much said it all. All I can say is that it sounds like you are doing the right things and coming here to vent is the best thing to do when you are angry and express it. I've come here myself very frustrated with my own daughter and I feel better after I write it all down and feel the support of others that understand what I am dealing with. I hope this week is a better week for you. Hugs to ya from me too. Dee

[misty]

jill

Annette my daughter is 6 and will be 7 November 12th. She took going to bed tonight early like a trooper and the minute the school work was done she was a diffierent child. She does have an IEP and it is due for re-newel come december and her one of her teachers is going to add something to it to help her he wants to work with her more and feels he can make a difference so it will be an addendom. At grandms birthday party her uncle had a talk with her an auncle she adores the good uncle. My one brother-in-law is a jerk and can be rude but even he was on good behavior.

Thanks everyone for the support I am done being angry with my child.


misty

The interactions of a child who has a difficult temperament and irritable behavior with parents who are harsh and inconsistent usually lead to a negative cycle of behavior in the family.In this pattern, the child's defiant behavior seems tomake the parents react more strongly.


Threatening the child with punishments & not always following through just teaches him that he doesn't HAVE to listen.
As this pattern becomes set, the behavior gets worse & worse. Then they go to school & they express their defiance with teachers and other adults, and are aggressive towards other kids.

Heres a summary of some different articles I have read that tell how to correct some of the defiance:

Parents are first trained to simply have periods of positive play interaction with their child. They then receive further training to identify the child's positive behaviors and to reinforce these behaviors. At that point, parents are trained in the use of brief negative consequences for misbehavior.

Regardless of the child's age, intervention early in the developing pattern of oppositional behavior is likely to be more effective than waiting for the child to grow out of it.

The children with emotional defiant behavior need to be held to the the rules even more than other children. Children should be given choices, this makes them feel in charge. The choices they are given however are made by the teacher. So regarless of what the child picks the teacher is still in control.

Positve reinforcement is also key. Bad behaviors might lead to punishment, but good behaviors should definetly be rewarded.

One thing I noticed is that many times we will say "please?" or "ok?" after giving a direction to a child. With out realizing it we just changed the direction from You need to do... To would you do...? Often when directions are asked and not stated the children will answer the question with "No!".

ODD children are miserable in their skins and if given the opportunity to change their skin, would do so in a heart beat. Control is their battle.

jj

Oh gosh, When I married & had an instant family...2 boys ... I was so inexperienced and would always do the "Please, will you.." I actually probably went overboard trying to be the nice step-mommie that I can't imagine had they had ODD how things might have been. Thank goodness I had two gentle little guys to raise!

Nikki wasn't DX'd with ODD but my gosh she would argue. And those flat out "No's" would drive me nuts. I made so many mistakes with her I don't know how we made it to find peace in the end. It had to be a act of God. I say this over and over again but I wish I knew then what I know now, thanks to this site and other sites.

[mellissa]

I feel your pain and am open to any suggestions My son is now fourteen and at age four was diagnosed ADHD ODD BP We are now undergoing tests for learning disorders and trying to get an IEP plan in progress(which I am been fighting for for five years now) We are struggling everyday and it seems things are only getting worse. His violent outbursts and disrespect have gotten much worse. His self esteem has bottomed out and now he says he would rather be in juvenile detention than go back into "that school" We showed him what juvenile detention was like by allowing him to spend the noght there. It did not help now I am my wits end. If he gets into one more fight he goes straight back to juvenile detention and there is nothing I can do to help him. He does not care what I say. He is determined to do things his way or no way. PLEASE HELP ME PLEASE i AM AT MY WIT'S END WITH THIS CHILE I LOVE HIM TO MUCH TO GIVE UP ON HIM HE IS ONLY 14 AND A VERY BIG HEARTED KID I THINK HE HAS JUST LOST IT SOMEWHERE.

[jill]

I worry about the future myself and 14 is a tough age. Where you live do they have any services to assist? Where I am you can call the County the PINS Division and they will open a case for you and assign a Preventative worker (like me I do more than just work with parents in trouble with CPS). I can authorize another Agency to step in and work with the family like here we have what is called Urgent Access and they work with the parents, child, and school and come up with a plan and follow the family for up to 3-4 months and provide numerous services. When the close the case all basis are covered with rap around services if need be. If your son did criminal things then PINS would take affect. I hope the best for you I know things are difficult for you I see it with these families all the time. Usually after Urgent Access the families do see improvement and stability.

We have a good psychologist who specializes in tough kids and he wrote a book on his theories and how he does things which work for my girl. The book has been in publishing now a couple of years so when it gets released I will share with all. I wish I can be of more help but I do not know it all (wish i did). A book I read that was somewhat helpful of understanding was "The Defiant Child A parents guide to Oppositional Defiant Disorder" by Dr. Douglas A. Riley. My psychologist thumbed through it and basically disagreed with some of it I did too on some parts. It was however helpful in other parts. Let me know how it goes Jill