New to forum, and just starting research

[anon4now]

Hi,

I'm new here. I've been reading posts for a few days and each day I get more and more scared. I really need to get some questions out there and I'm hoping you all can help me.

Brief history: My son is 9 y/o and diagnosed at 6 with ADHD by a physchologist. After some consideration we decided to try ritalyn, but my son did not react well to it. He fell asleep for the length of the medication (I can't remember but I think for 4 hours) then woke up and went all wild. I swear there were foot prints on my walls. The pediatrician suggested seeing a neurologist to help us with medication choices. This is where I'm starting to get nervous.

The neurologist (I only saw him once) had asked if there was history of bi-polar disease in the family. Not in mine...by his biological father said his mom, brother and uncle all were. So the neruologist prescribed depakote. I researched this drug and found it was for treatment of bi-polar. I asked my pediatrician if the neurologist thought he was bi-polar. The ped said no. He said that my son's "wiring" was just different because of the bi-polar history and that's why the depakote. I took his word for it, and decided not to put my son on the drug. He's been untreated and without a pysch dr for the past 3 years.

Could it be possible the pediatrician was wrong and they didn't have the communications correct? Could the pyschologist have mis-diagnosed ADHD at age 6, but a new doc may diagnose different at age 9?

I have a million and half questions about children with bp. I guess my first and foremost would be, can mood swings cycle hourly? I look at the two lists and I can say my son experiences both lists throughout every day. I think the older he gets the longer the swings. But I remember as a baby he would go from laughing to crying to laughing within seconds. My husband and I would be perplexed by his behaviour sometimes, it was very odd. I hate jumping to conclusions, but it's so hard sometimes. I'm just really nervous.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Anon

[misty]

Hi! First of all,

I'm sure people will chime in who have more experience with bi-polar, but I do know that it's quite common for the first diagnosis to be ADHD when really there are other things going on. Bi-polar often isn't caught right away & is often thought to be ADHD at first. That being said, don't panic yet.I'd suggest finding a neuropsych to take your son to & get a full evaluation. In my experience, they are the best at getting to the bottom of things & getting a correct diagnosis.

I'll let the other address the mood swing questions...but until then, . You came to the right place for support! we are glad to have you aboard!

[katiekat]

My 7 year old was diagnosed with ADHD and then later bipolar. He was on Depakote but it did nothing. I think anyone could be wrong because it all seems to be a matter of opinion. He has other issues that no one can seem to pin down but they all have agreed on the ADHD and BP. I know that there is "rapid cycling" but my son does not experience that. He was just put on Abilify today and will not start it until tonight. He has been to several psychiatrists, a neurologist, and also an Intensive Outpatient Program. To date nothing has helped. He was DX about a year ago. I hope I can be a help to you-so any questions you have ask away!

[charliegirl]

A child with pediatric bipolar is often a rapid cycler. The older they get, the less rapid it is so the original neuro could be right. Three years is a long enough time for you to start seeing some changes. Also, you now have a school history to give you more clues as to what is going on.

I suggest you take him to a neurologist, possibly the first one since he already has a record on him. If not, you can talk to your ped about the depakote again.

I have cousins I grew up with who had bipolar and weren't diagnosed as children. They had a very hard time. One was diagnosed as an adult and once they found the right meds it has made a world of difference. The others also went to get diagnosed.

If your child is authentically diagnosed as bipolar, it won't change him. If he has it, he already does and being afraid to find out will only hurt him. Finding out will enable you to get the help he needs now while he is young enough to learn what he has to do to manage it.

I want to welcome you to the site here and assure you that we are here for you. We care and we do understand. You can do this. I know its hard but I think knowing one way or the other will help you get past the dread and enable you to be proactive. Once you have taken the first steps, you will know you did the right thing.

[jj]

Welcome to the site Anon4now. Charliegirl is right in what she says. It is so scary I know. What ever you do, don't think all is lost for your son just because of a different DX. It isn't. I know of many adults with bipolar who are doing great on medication as well as psych help. They hold jobs, are married with kids and do very well. If in fact he does have bipolar and you find out while he is so young then the better he will do as he gets older.

I'm so glad you found us. We will be here for you every step of the way.

[anon4now]

Thank you for the responses. I called a counselor today. He should be calling me sometime this week to discuss some things. I'm not sure if he'll be able to help us, but maybe point us in the right direction.

My DH thinks I have a problem where I'm looking for an excuse for my son's behavior. He doesn't "believe" in ADHD per se. And if I bring up another diagnosis, he says I'm fishing for something. He says he can take any diagnosis and find a way it fits our son or anyone else for that matter. There is a lot more to that story, but it does feel like I'm doing this alone. I can ask him to be supportive, but then I just feel like he's pretending. I asked him to research ADHD with me, and he's done minimal work. I hand him print outs and send him links all day and he doesn't ever discuss it with me. When I ask him if he read it he'll say no. Anyways, I'm afraid to jump to conclusions because I would really hate for DH to be right lol.

I looked at one of the sticky posts and found a list of symptoms for children. Here's my thoughts on each one:

Depressed Phase

Irritable, argumentative, aggressive, whining/crying
not as motivated or playful, not as curious and explorative, school work drops off, boredom

----When something upsets him, usually being reprimanded, he becomes very depressed, he'll hit his head on the wall or dresser, he pushes everyone away and becomes consumed by his depression.

Fails to gain weight normally

---I don't know why someone wouldn't gain weight except for a poor appetite. He never had a poor appetite, but he's always been a skinny kid.

Difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep

---He's up all night scratching (he has a skin condition) if I don't put him to bed at 7:30PM (to be up at 6:00AM) he's impossible to get out of bed and is very grumpy.

Difficulty concentrating or sitting still, impulsivity, less active or interactive, hyperactive, disorganized

---Some of his biggest challenges are impulse control, hyperactivity and organization.

Needs rests, naps, complains when is pushed to do things, plays "sick"

---Not at this age, but when a baby if we didn't pull him away from an activity to calm down he would usually hurt himself b/c he would wear himself out. When he is pushed to do things that he doesn't want to do, he cries or whines.

Makes negative self-comments such as "You hate me" and "I'm stupid"

---He's mentioned things like this quite often, especially after a confontation. He's threaten to leave home because our family would be happier without him.

Poor attention and concentration, easily distractible, disorganized

---Yes, yes, yes and yes.

Talks about death, states "I wish I was never born" or "I wish I was dead"

---A few times in the past 3 years. Very upsetting.

Extreme fears for safety, seeing scary images, hearing monsters

---Not seeing things, but feels "getting in trouble" is very scary that he will get physically affected. Racing heart and hot/flush feeling.

Manic Phase

Extremely happy or giddy; extremely silly or sociable; may start feeling he has special powers or is a superhero; demands to be the center of attention

---special powers or superhero, no. But he likes to be the class clown and center of attention in class.

Spends lots more time than usual in activities, playing, helping parents out; everybody is a "friend" constantly wanting parents' attention

---He works better when he works with mom. He's very clingy to mom. we call him my shadow. More shy with strangers though.

Rapid, incessant speech. Doesn't allow others to contribute to conversation

---He sometimes talks a lot and the sentences don't always make sense though I can figure out what he means. Now that I'm thinking about it, I think when he was younger he was like this a lot more then now. I remember car rides would be him rattling off at the mouth. We also joked that his sister (2 y/o) doesn't talk because he talked enough for the both of them.

Difficulty going to bed, does not seem to need as much sleep at night as before, doesn't need naps during day

---This has never been the case. He's always needed a lot of sleep but I think that's because he would be up at night itching and not sleeping well.

Can't focus or concentrate on tasks or topics when talking, constantly has "great" ideas about things

---Multi tasking is not a strength (but I thought that was just b/c he was a boy lol)

Persistently intrusive and impulsive, can't wait turn, won't listen to parents' demands; very disruptive to others; poor frustration tolerance; rude

---Impulse was listed above. This is a problem for him. He will do or say things without thinking first. With me, if I'm telling him, "you need to bring this to your room." he will interupt me and say "yea yea yea" and then put the item in the kitchen or something. He would never pull that with dad though. And he does it more with grandparents then with me.

Shows sudden interest in gender/sexual issues; starts using foul language in a playful way; may masturbate or touch others; vulgar

---No, but honestly we're concerned for the future.

Short tempered, anger and aggressive outbursts, easily frustrated when told "no"

---Will scream/cry when upset. Will hold his breath to keep from crying. Triggers are sometimes unpredictable but seems to get "overly" upset.

Poorly organized behavior; quickly loses interest in demanding tasks; does things and says things that don't quite make sense

---Poorly organized yes. I need to clean his room with him often to get items in their correct spot. Which he loses interest in cleaning his room with me lol. He can tell stories out of order and it takes a minute to follow him. Sometimes I have to coach him through a story.

Extreme fears for safety, seeing scary images, hearing monsters

---same as above. Fear of getting in trouble almost like anxiety. Never had monster fears. But took great comfort in his stuffed dalmation.

For those children that have been diagnosed BP, I guess I would just ask what kind of symptoms do you see, and what challenges have you over come since diagnosis.

Thanks for listening to me. Could it be any longer? LOL

Anon

[bugsmom]

Anon...Welcome! We are so happy you are here and hope this will be a soft place for you to land when your at your wits end with all doubts and fears.

I think the girls gave you the best advice. You need to get your son re-evaluated to find the answer to your questions. I know this can be a very scary step, but like CG said, its the first step in trying to help your son. I think another good step would be for you to start journaling your sons moods during the day. I know its hard when their at school, but you could do morning, afternoon, and evening and you will have a clearer picture on any kind of cycling. I had to do this a couple of years ago when my sons moods were off the charts. It was very helpful when i was beside myself and needed a clearer picture as to why he seemed to be swinging.

Can you give us a little more information on your son? What are his biggest struggles? How is he in school? Does he have and make friends? I would love to hear more of your story and learn more about your wonderful son.

Once again, welcome to our group. We are all here for you and will try to help you the best we can.

[katiekat]

Anon, I will respond to the same statements that you did. Depressed Phase

Irritable, argumentative, aggressive, whining/crying
not as motivated or playful, not as curious and explorative, school work drops off, boredom

*Becomes argumentative when he is not usually that way. Crying may last for several hours but he doesnt know why he cries. Not as talkative-I think when he has "good days" at school he is depressed actually.

Fails to gain weight normally

*No, he is small but not underweight.

Difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep

*We put Sean to bed at 7:30 also so he will be asleep by 8:30 or 9:00. There are periods of time where he will wake up at 2 am and never go back to sleep. The longest this lasted was 2 months. We had to put him on medication at that time.

Difficulty concentrating or sitting still, impulsivity, less active or interactive, hyperactive, disorganized

*Yes, Yes, Yes. His hyperactivity is off the charts. He is very impulsive and never sits still. These are the things that get him in trouble the most at school.

Needs rests, naps, complains when is pushed to do things, plays "sick"

*Usually never needs rest but there was a period of time when he would want to go to sleep after school because he was"bored."

Makes negative self-comments such as "You hate me" and "I'm stupid"

*Often. Never says I hate him but says he's stupid and everyone is smarter than him.

Poor attention and concentration, easily distractible, disorganized

*Very much so for all.

Talks about death, states "I wish I was never born" or "I wish I was dead"

*Just recently made comments about wishing he was dead and wanting to kill himself.

Extreme fears for safety, seeing scary images, hearing monsters

*Only after he has nightmares-he is then fearful in the day of what he dreamt of-spiders, snakes, etc.

Manic Phase

Extremely happy or giddy; extremely silly or sociable; may start feeling he has special powers or is a superhero; demands to be the center of attention

*Gets very giddy and silly. No powers but does think he knows more than anyone else-will correct me on reading or spelling when he can do neither.

Spends lots more time than usual in activities, playing, helping parents out; everybody is a "friend" constantly wanting parents' attention

*Always wants to "help". Refers to someone he met once as his best friend. Very needy and clingy with me-needs my attention constantly.

Rapid, incessant speech. Doesn't allow others to contribute to conversation

*Always. Talks on and on and interrupts others if they try to talk.What he says never makes much sense though.

Difficulty going to bed, does not seem to need as much sleep at night as before, doesn't need naps during day

*He really never needs sleep it seems.

Can't focus or concentrate on tasks or topics when talking, constantly has "great" ideas about things

*Very poor concentration. Comes up with lots of "great plans."

Persistently intrusive and impulsive, can't wait turn, won't listen to parents' demands; very disruptive to others; poor frustration tolerance; rude

*Yes to all, very easily annoyed by others but LOVES to annoy them.

Shows sudden interest in gender/sexual issues; starts using foul language in a playful way; may masturbate or touch others; vulgar

*Not at this point but he did make a female friend take off her shoes so he could "rub her feet" not sure where he got this idea or if it is considered sexual. But it freaked me out.

Short tempered, anger and aggressive outbursts, easily frustrated when told "no"

*Yes, if he doesn't get his way.

Poorly organized behavior; quickly loses interest in demanding tasks; does things and says things that don't quite make sense

*Very unorganized. Doesnt like to do anything that takes a lot of effort. Asks questions and makes statements that make no sense at all.

Extreme fears for safety, seeing scary images, hearing monsters

*Anxiety is a huge problem. Has heard voices of someone whispering his name over and over, gets anxious over even just being asked a question and being expected to respond.

[charliegirl]

Anon, how would your dh handle it if you told him you were worried that something more than normal kid behaviour was going on and you needed to have him tested again for your peace of mind? You can remind him that you would love nothing more than to have an expert tell you that your son is normal and help you with parenting skills.

It does sound like there is a likelihood that he has something that isn't normal going on. Getting your husband on the same page with you in regard to testing may make him more amenable to a diagnosis when it comes. If he can accept the diagnosis he will be more willing to back you up when it comes to meds and anything else they suggest.

I and most of us here have gone through the same thing with our husbands. I really believe men have a much harder time accepting that there is anything wrong with their child's life that they can't fix.

[unicorn]

Glad to have you here! Welcome to our family.