Odd behavior

[crazyhouse]

I tried to name this consicuences but I always spell it wrong. Jake has been having issues with consicuences and I don't know what to do. We have small issues and big issues. Jake tonight was cold running to the car at the store. I told him to put his hat and gloves on before he walked out. He of course didn't listen We get to the car and he is crying like someone hurt him "I don't like the cold" I don't want to be cold, Mommy help me" for several minutes after we were in the car. This worries me and I need some advice. Another situation he will wander off in the store and we tell him to hold onto the cart or stroller. He has been thouroghly warned about stranger danger. We were at the mall a week ago and he wandered off in a small store so my husband and my nieghbor watched him from the store window to see if he would look up and wonder where they were I was on the other side of the store where he couldn't see me and he could just care less! This scares me! Last week he had a problem with his 11 mth old brother and sprayed carpet cleaner on him. He picked some kid up I don't even know at the Dr.'s office. I'm afraid he is going to do something that could test his mortality or the law. It's hard I explain things very thouroughly and easily eye contact short to the point sentences no questions and he just doesn't get it. It's like the information I sent in side that head never got in even though he nodded responded interacted with the information. What is the problem can someone answer this question because it scares me that I can't label this with anything I have ever heard of.

[jfla]

You have described my son to a "T" when he was younger. I used to joke about various issues and say that I hope he learns by the time he is 18. Well he is 18 now he is in pretty good shape.

When he was two or three, I wondered the same question of "if I let him go, how far will he go until he looks back to see where I am?" I remember doing this at a long stretch of beach where there weren't any people and he would be safe. He never looked back. I caught up with him after he was3-4 blocks away.

It was only after a bowling ball fell on his finger and we were in the emergency room, he started sticking near me. Frightening that it took something llike that, but that is my experience.

I thought about the idea of consequences a lot last year when he was 17 and would forget to take Ritalin. I was hoping he would learn by consequences the academic effects of not taking his medicine, but his short term memory is such that he doesn't remember the consequences especially when he is not on medication. So he would do it again. I discussed it with a principal who is a strong believer in "Love and Logic" and great in dealing with behavior issues. She had no suggestions.

It seems to me that in general they live in the here and now. It just might take more experiences with being cold when he goes out until he puts it together that putting a hat and gloves on now means you won't be cold later. When you suggest the hat etc he is not cold at the time and it's irrelevant to him and he may have forgotten how cold he was last time he didn't have them.

Another thought I just had is that these kids often have a high threshold for pain. So it might take a greater degree of discomfort for them to react. Stimulant medications seem to bring a greater awareness of body sensations. I noticed my son's tolerance for pain became closer to average after he started medication.

At some point they do put it all together. It is just that they are not on the same timeline as others. In general they are a few years behind in maturity and maybe this area is behind in a similar way. In the meantime, we make sure that they can grow up healthy and safely. Somehow my son has put it all together and I'm ready to release him to the world soon. Have faith.
Regards,
jfla -jayfly

[katiekat]

This sounds alot like Sean, in fact we have the same exact issues.He always gives me a hard time about the coat,hat and gloves. He always wanders away in stores even when right before we go in I warn him of the dangers. Once in Walgreens he walked away from my H and I and we let him go and snuck around following him to see if he would get upset. He never did!We finally approached him and pretended to be very upset telling him we thought he had been taken by a stranger and were getting ready to call the police. He didnt bat an eye. Instead of being upset he was defiant telling us that he had just been looking at something and we should have looked there. His lack of remorse and empathy for others concerns me. He is only concerned with his feelings and does not seem to care that other people have feelings as well.
I understand what you mean about Jake "not getting it" I feel the same way about Sean and it frightens me to. I always say Little kid little problems, big kid big problems and worry that if things dont change this kid is going to have some real serious issues when he gets older.

[crazyhouse]

JayFly I cannot believe you explained my husband! Several years back when we first started dating he broke his arm. A year after that he was playing football and landed on it. We took him to a specialist and the specialist said the bone drifted apart over a period of 2-3 years. I was amazed how could you not feel that. He ended up having surgery with a bone gragh and a pin. My mother in law told me he has a very high pain tolerence. One time he fell off his bike and landed on an old coke bottle (glass one) and a piece got lodged in his knee. He tried getting a band aid for it from his mom, and she took him to the emergency room. He then sat there and poked at it with the Dr. You almost got it wait OOHH you missed it. They ended up stitching the entrance up and about 6 mths later it made its way out. To him it was no big deal he just thru it in the garbage. His mom was amazed at how it didn't bother him. So this is another ADHD symptom is what your saying.

KK I'm glad to know I'm not the only one. it's nice to know someone shares my frustrations.

[misty]

I think its a mixture of poor short term memory, impulsiveness & hyperfocusing. Shannon used to be like that too. She would be so focused on wanting to look at some toy in the store that she'd just take off & go looking for it, not stopping to remember the last time it happened & how worried we were & what a lecture she had received.

Now that shes 12 its not nearly as bad, but I do remember some scares from when she was younger. She STILL won't wear the hat, gloves & scarf, but I figure shes only at the busstop for 5 minutes & if she freezes enough times, she'll make a point to start wearing them.

crazyhouse said:

It's like the information I sent in side that head never got in even though he nodded responded interacted with the information.

Shannon does this EXACT thing. She nods, agrees, seems to be listening, but if I ask her later about it, she cannot even tell me what I had said. I've found that if I make her repeat what I'm telling her that more of it will stick with her.

[katiekat]

Since the name of this thread is Odd Behavior I don't know what to make of these odd things Sean has done recently.
We got him new bedroom furniture and 1st of all it's like he's never seen furniture before. He climbs and jumps all over it but this is the odd thing-I went in his room and there was something smeared all over his mirror after much prodding he told me he spit all over it and rubbed it around. What? Are you 2 or 6?
The other thing was I went upstairs and there was this black stuff all over my bathroom sink,wall,etc. When I went to Sean he had the same black stuff all over his face hand tounge and teeth. He had gotten this Crayola Magic Paper for Christmas which is black paper and when you color it with a special marker there are colors underneath. Well instead of using the marker he LICKED THE BLACK STUFF OFF!!! All of it, 3 entire sheets. Although its non toxic it didnt come off for days. Who does that ??And why?? I tought that was exceptionally odd.

[misty]

That is odd, Katie.

when Shannon was younger, she used to eat Kleenexes when she was sick. It was GROSS! There would be little balls of spit encrusted kleenex all around her bed. UGH....and its not like I could hide the kleenex either--she only ate them when her nose was runny & she needed them. She did that until she was 8 or 9 & then suddenly she just stopped doing it.

[jj]

Maybe he just isn't really connecting the two? You may tell him to wear gloves and a hat and you won't "hurt" later but that may not be making the light bulb go on. LOL I know to this day people can tell me something and it can go right out of my head a second later so maybe telling just isn't enough. Maybe have him hold an ice cube in his bare hand for a minute and then have him put on a glove and hold the ice cube. Repeat and maybe he'll make the connection. I mean really, how many times have we as adults nodded our heads to indicate we are listening and we are not. Anyway, just a thought.

Kids are so impulsive in general and then throw in the ADHD and you have problems like you describe for sure. And kids do odd things. I remember eating coal that my Dad used in his iron furnace for making horse shoes. Did I just admit that? LOL

[bugsmom]

Crazyhouse...I'm sorry to say that my son has never learned from me telling him something before-hand. It isn't until he experieces the out-come that he will learn a lesson. I keep telling him that he is going to have a hard life if he doesn't hear what I say...but he only learns from his mistakes. When he was little it drove me nuts, he really scared me. But now that he's almost 11 it isn't half as bad.

Jfla...please keep posting and giving us hope! You've been through the trenches and it helps so much to hear that your son is doing well. I know that one day my son had an awful day and I was just beside myself. I read a post you had on News and it turned me around and gave me hope. I will never forget it. So glad you made it over here!

As for odd behavior...my Josh has started to bite holes in his shirts. Just out of the blue he has started chewing on his shirts. I found 3 holes in 3 of his new shirts last week. He did this when he was really little and I haven't seen in awhile. So yesterday I informed him that if I find one more hole in his shirts I will be taking the money out of his bank account to cover the cost of the shirt. We'll see how it goes.

[jfla]

Glad to post and give you hope bugsmom!
In fourth grade my son started chewing his shirts again. (pre school) I don't know if it had anything to do with a move we had recently made. I remember figuring that if he chews holes in his shirts, then he will wear shirts with holes in them. I told him not to chew holes in all of them and put some nice ones aside. He stopped chewing not too long after our discussion.

Crazyhouse,
Interesting stories. It is hard for me personally to imagine such high tolerances for pain that your husband has shown, but read on...
I noticed this early on with my son and couldn't quite understand it.
-As a new crawler looking down at the ground when he was a baby, he smacked his head really hard on some playground equipment. I thought he would start to cry, but instead he looked up and probably thought "oh. something is in the way. I think I will go around"
-After his bath as a toddler, I checked the bottom of his feet since he had been running barefoot all day. He had a big thorn stuck in the bottom of his foot and didn't know about it!
-The pediatrician was surprised that he did not feel even a tickle in the ear with a "raging" ear infection.
-Playing tag at age ten he tripped in our backyard and landed on a metal stake. When I got outside to see what had happened he was calmly saying "ow..... ow. ... ow..." as he looked at the 1/2" hole in his thigh.

This high tolerance is mentioned ina very old book on ADHD kids. It was before they were labeled ADHD or hyperactive, but are refered to in the general term "learning disability" Altho the copyright is 1972 it gives a wonderful description of an ADHDer from the child's perspective, the parents and the teacher's. In the 30 years since this book was written great strides have been made in understanding and treating the condition. Unique to this book is the main idea that the child is one that lives in the present. It is understanding this perspective that has given me patience when I thought I was really losing it. From time to time I would run across this little book and in reading through various passages, I'd think...oh my gosh this is our life.

An excerpt from the Foreward regarding sense of time:
"Among the many aspects of learning disability covered by the authors, one needs special comments because of its close connection with the child's everyday acts. This child lacks a sense of time There is not yesterday or tomorrow, there is only today. Each act stands on its own, dictated by its own stimuli and has little to do with what went before or what may come after. It is this independence of the individual act which makes the child so impulsive, so seemingly unappreciative, so forgetfuland so unpredictable. Punishment has little effect because it occurs after the fact and the fact has already passed into oblivion."
--Living Around The Now Child
by Don Woodward, Norma Biondo
True or not, thinking of my son living in the present has helped me understand him better and seems to make sense sometimes.