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Post by lcdc1 on Jan 29, 2007 19:26:03 GMT -5
Does CBT tell you how to unwind the negative thoughts that are so imbedded in you and that a gamut of people told you in your formative years? What if you were told as a kid all your life that you were a screw up and you did screw up often? If you had behaviors that were so bad and noone knew why at the time but now modern medicine gives you an answer but you still expect to screw up.
Maybe that is who you are now and it won't change?
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Post by John on Jan 30, 2007 13:55:45 GMT -5
LCDC, as I was growing up I'd overhear my Mom on the phone saying something like, ''Oh yes, John is very shy . . . ''. Well did that help me with how I saw myself and how I thought Other people saw me - no. So as I was growing up, when I would ask myself (un.conciously of course), OK who am I, what am I, how will I respond. My AST (automatic self-talk) would jump up & down and say, ''Hey pick me, pick me''. I became more or became to believe that I was shy, could only respond as a 'shy person'. Hence my perception and reality of who I wuse was formed by the information that I was given.
Now I'm in training to question my Negative Automatic Thoughts [NATs], and ask -
Is this true about what I think about me. Is this true what I think about the other person [and their motives ETC]. Is this true what this other person said about me or my behavior.
These are just baby steps that I'm taking. Falling is to be expected . . . getting Up is always the hard part.
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Post by lcdc1 on Jan 31, 2007 2:19:05 GMT -5
It is interesting and good that you share all this because I have often wondered why it is so important to understand why we do the things we do and why it is important to go back and dissect past events?
I look at my own life and sometimes think I am a poser because people could define me as successful with 2 very beautiful kids, the 2 car garage, the suburbia house, the succesful career woman who broke through the glass ceiling of upper level management in fire, etc........ but then I think of the past labels, my own actions and the not succesful childhood and teenage years, the really bad young adult years and wonder how can i be expected to do this and maintain the LIE of who I am now - i am going to screw it up? My pattern is one of screwing up?
I would like to think the medication for adhd and the soul searching "fixed" me - but it has not really. I still react, I am still impulsive, I am still in high gear, I am still me!!!
So I just wonder if I personally am trying to fix something that cannot be fixed and if i am prolonging the inevitable screw up that is coming?
It is pretty cool to have this conversation in this forum as I would not do it anywhere else.
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Post by charliegirl on Jan 31, 2007 11:16:47 GMT -5
I look at my own life and sometimes think I am a poser because people could define me as successful with 2 very beautiful kids, the 2 car garage, the suburbia house, the succesful career woman who broke through the glass ceiling of upper level management in fire, etc........ but then I think of the past labels, my own actions and the not succesful childhood and teenage years, the really bad young adult years and wonder how can i be expected to do this and maintain the LIE of who I am now - i am going to screw it up? My pattern is one of screwing up? I would like to think the medication for adhd and the soul searching "fixed" me - but it has not really. I still react, I am still impulsive, I am still in high gear, I am still me!!! Who you are and what you have aren't a lie. You are successful because you are doing what we are all striving to teach our kids. You found something you are good at, using your ADHD STRENGTHS. We struggle to teach our kids how to overcome their weaknesses and use their strengths. Your past was the lie. It was other people not believing in you and calling you a screw up, rather than helping you become what you are capable of which is who you are now. You are a role model for ADHDers. You overcame the predictions of failure and figured out how to succeed and enjoy what you are doing.
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Post by misty on Jan 31, 2007 11:56:58 GMT -5
I'm NOT ADHD & sometimes feel the same way, Lcdc1. I was a BAD BAD (you cant even guess how BAD) teen ager & on into my early 20's....now that I'm almost 40 I wonder sometimes where this responsible, normal ADULT came from! Sometimes it feels like I'm playing house, you know? I think part of the problem is that the brain doesn't age like the body does. I don't FEEL older. Someone in her late 60's once told me that the brain doesn't feel old until you hit 65. She said she used to look in the mirror & be astonished that an old lady was looking back!
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Post by John on Jan 31, 2007 13:01:06 GMT -5
. Your past was the lie. It was other people not believing in you and calling you a screw up, rather than helping you become what you are capable of which is who you are now. BINGO Barb ! I was just talking to Paula (my therapist) yesterday about something similiar to this. The Automatic Negative Thoughts is like False Evidence that someone planted in you as you were growing up . . . I (and you and everyone else involved finding their 'true' self) am like a detective looking at the evidence & clues & information and deciding which is accurate and how to seperate fact from fiction. It's like were on a 'Cold Case' Quest for our souls.
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Post by lcdc1 on Jan 31, 2007 13:59:13 GMT -5
You all bring up some good points, but i am the always deep thinker (or pain in the neck?).
To get where the therapist is helping you go, it sounds like reinventing yourself, not changing past events? I wonder also why it is important to in all this therapy stuff to forgive people in your past? It seems that by forgiving, you are condoning or supporting the negative things they chose to do?
I do feel good about myself for the most part and am a happy with life person - that is why this interests me so much - cause i wonder why if i am so happy go lucky and successful, why do i keep chewing on this subject and wonder about it?
I also wonder how you find a therapist that you are comfortable discussing these things with - i have tried therapy some and it worked for a short time - but i am the type that does not show emotion too much to outsiders and it is hard to really feel like you can open up to them cause i do feel like i will be judged and they might think i am a nut case or something?
Hey - am i gettting free therapy here?
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Post by John on Jan 31, 2007 14:32:04 GMT -5
Yes LCDC it's FREE ~ Whooo-Hooo ! You can't change past events, you can't change other people, you can only change YOURSELF & how you THINK about past events. I had a variety of 'Angry Women' as caregivers in my formative years. So when I interact with angry women now, I fall into the same pattern of behavior . . . I feel overwhelmed and almost go into an automatic response of shutting down and/or totally agreement with what they say. I did this when I was younger 'cause I had no control over myself and what they wanted or said. So I've learned that even though I was angry with what was going on I could not express it or show it for self-preservation reasons. So later as a teen.ager/young adult I would respond by being Passive-Aggressive, ignoring unpleasant communication/interactions, using sarcasm as a form of communication and becoming an introvert. I could not express anger because I learned this was dangerous and it's said that anger that is not expressed in a HEALTHY way can lead to depression [or anger turned inward is depression]. What i'm in the stage of learning is how to ''short circuit' this Negaitve Auto-maitc Thinking BEFORE it takes over my thinking process. Not an easy task ! If I can see the signs ahead of time I can then say to self, ''Hey look out, here come that same old Negative & FALSE Message about WHO YOU ARE and how you should let people treat you''. Isn't life FUN ~
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Post by charliegirl on Jan 31, 2007 15:16:29 GMT -5
To answer the question about forgiving people being the same as condoning it, the answer is no.
When you forgive, you are basically saying to that person that what you have done in the past isn't important to me now, I REFUSE to let it affect me and the way I feel". Even if you don't said it out loud, you are saying it internally and that is affecting how you will react in the future.
By not forgiving, you have a tendancy to dwell on the wrong that was done, and let it affect your moods and the way you think today.
example: You used to hear, you are a screw up and will always be a screw up
Today your boss says: If you do this in this way, it will be easier and more effective
What you hear if you haven't forgiven and are still listening to that voice from 20 years ago: Once a screw up, always a screw up, you may as well give up now
What you hear if you have forgiven and refuse to let that little voice affect your reaction today: You are doing fine but I want to help you do your job in the most efficient way, so learn from my experience, I know you are smart enough to not have to learn the hard way.
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Post by lcdc1 on Jan 31, 2007 22:46:51 GMT -5
Yes - good points again - i see where the forgiveness thing might work that way? My life was all about anger and expressing it and having some people in my family free to express it!!! This was the only emotion that seemed to be OK to show - no tears, no hugs, you had to be tough and buck up!!!
I know that people can overcome their pasts for sure - i just always wonder how and why - i know that i freely express love and concern for my kids and tell them they are loved every chance i get!!! So I overcame stuff somehow - so it is good to hear others life stories and know that there are people out there that had trials in their lives.
I always felt isolated from certain emotions like they were foriegn and now that i can express them better and control them better, it makes me wonder why? There are no easy answers i suppose?
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