Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (from old site)

[misty]

Thats a good point, JJ. How can someone have self acceptance if they their self esteem has them believing they are stupid or worthless??

Tell us John!

[John]

jj said:

I'm getting dizzy thinking about it. I don't get it at all. Especially since I can't relate to letting someone yelling at me with out putting them in their place - like really fast. Maybe I'm missing the point. I will ponder this some more....

Certainly one can't have self-acceptance and not have good self-esteem or visa-versa, can they? Don't they pretty much go hand in hand???

That was just an example I made up . . .Let me see if I can clarify myself.

Self-acceptance comes from the inside [internal] and is not at all related to any external sources or input. It is the acknowledgment of yourself warts and all. It is Accepting yourself, knowing that you are going to make mistakes, let people down and generally screw things up.
The Other side of that coin is: OK, I may do all these things but that's not ALL of ME. I'm generally a good, caring person. I care about my kids, spouse, relatives, co-workers et cet era, and I will do all within my ability to help them in there live. I know I need to improve certain area's in my live and I'm willing to work on those in the best way I know how.

For me, my self-acceptance tank was always empty so all my self-respect hinged on how other people related to me. If somebody said, ''Hey your kids did a good job on that'',
I felt validated as a parent.

If someone said, ''Hey your kid did such-and -such, what's his problem''. I would feel like, ''Oh, my Gosh ~ What kind of parent am I ? Not only am I a failure, now my kids are a failure too.

The concept of self-acceptance did not exist within me. It was/is a foreign and alien idea I am learning about. I had been trained by my childhood to respond and expect my Worthwhileness from other people, for good or bad. I never thought about it, I never questioned it. It was so much a part of who I was/am that never even a whisper of questioning it ever entered my conscious mind.

Does this help any . . .

[jj]

Thanks John. I appreciate you trying again to help us (me) get it. I find this so interesting and I want to really "get it" but right now I can't say that I do and I hope you don't mind but I'm going to comment on some things and you can tell me if I'm on the right track or way off in la la land.

john said:

jj said:

I'm getting dizzy thinking about it. I don't get it at all. Especially since I can't relate to letting someone yelling at me with out putting them in their place - like really fast. Maybe I'm missing the point. I will ponder this some more....

Certainly one can't have self-acceptance and not have good self-esteem or visa-versa, can they? Don't they pretty much go hand in hand???

That was just an example I made up . . .Let me see if I can clarify myself.

Self-acceptance comes from the inside [internal] and is not at all related to any external sources or input. It is the acknowledgment of yourself warts and all. It is Accepting yourself, knowing that you are going to make mistakes, let people down and generally screw things up.
The Other side of that coin is: OK, I may do all these things but that's not ALL of ME. I'm generally a good, caring person. I care about my kids, spouse, relatives, co-workers et cet era, and I will do all within my ability to help them in there live. I know I need to improve certain area's in my live and I'm willing to work on those in the best way I know how.

For me, my self-acceptance tank was always empty so all my self-respect hinged on how other people related to me. If somebody said, ''Hey your kids did a good job on that'',
I felt validated as a parent.

If someone said, ''Hey your kid did such-and -such, what's his problem''. I would feel like, ''Oh, my Gosh ~ What kind of parent am I ? Not only am I a failure, now my kids are a failure too.

Now to me, this would be normal reactions to either of those scenarios. Wouldn't every parent pat themselves on the back for positive feedback about their child or at the very least blame themselves, if but for a moment, when there is negative feedback??? If so, and going on that premise, if someone didn't have self-acceptance they would dwell on how rotten of a parent they are where-as a person with self-acceptance would quickly put that notion aside (being a failure) and say....O.K. I'm human, maybe I did make a mistake in how I'm raising this child or maybe my child just needs a different tactic. And that person would quickly put any negative thoughts aside and start the new approach.

OR are you saying a parent with self-acceptance would not even consider they played a role in the good or bad of their child and just lay all the good and bad on the fault of the child....cause that is almost what it sounds like.

I know that was just an example so ...taking another scenario like the boss yelling at you for a poorly done project. I just don't see how anyone wouldn't blame themselves. I mean you could look at it like, the boss didn't give me good direction and just blame it all on the boss but that doesn't sound healthy either...sort of like denial.
The concept of self-acceptance did not exist within me. It was/is a foreign and alien idea I am learning about. I had been trained by my childhood to respond and expect my Worthwhileness from other people, for good or bad. I never thought about it, I never questioned it. It was so much a part of who I was/am that never even a whisper of questioning it ever entered my conscious mind.

Does this help any . . .

Honestly, I still don't see any difference in self-esteem, self-acceptance or self-worth. I still see them as the same.

In other words, using those same parenting scenarios, if I had poor self-esteem I'd react the same as I would with poor self-acceptance, wouldn't I?

I know you said you had to read that chapter over and over to get it so I'm hoping if I think about this a light bulb will go off. Honestly, I'm trying to wrap my brain around this, really I am.

[misty]

JJ, I agree with you! Self acceptance still seems to go hand in hand with self esteem to me too.

Ok, John, you said: "Self-acceptance comes from the inside [internal] and is not at all related to any external sources or input.". Now to me, that means that how well I accept myself shouldn't have anything to do with how others see me. Or treat me. Right? Ok, so how can someone who, say, gets yelled at all the time from their boss keep their self acceptance intact? Over time I think anyone would internalize some of that & start to see themselves as having less worth. How could that person just brush it off saying to themselves that they dont deserve that or that they are still a good person, when they are getting constantly berated at work?

And back to the parenting example.....children are a reflection of us. So you are telling me that if I have self acceptance & I find out that my teenager is stealing or smoking pot, then I shouldn't say "I wonder where I went wrong"? I should just say "Oh well, I know I'm a good person, so it has nothing to do with me!"?? I can't imagine not questioning how I must've not taught my child well if I ever found out she was stealing or doing drugs, etc.

I just dont get it either.

[John]

OK ~ wOw ~ a.HEM [cough. cough] Somebody help mE hEre !

[John]

jj said:

Thanks John. I appreciate you trying again to help us (me) get it. I find this so interesting and I want to really "get it" but right now I can't say that I do and I hope you don't mind but I'm going to comment on some things and you can tell me if I'm on the right track or way off in la la land.

Now to me, this would be normal reactions to either of those scenarios. Wouldn't every parent pat themselves on the back for positive feedback about their child or at the very least blame themselves, if but for a moment, when there is negative feedback??? If so, and going on that premise, if someone didn't have self-acceptance they would dwell on how rotten of a parent they are where-as a person with self-acceptance would quickly put that notion aside (being a failure) and say....O.K. I'm human, maybe I did make a mistake in how I'm raising this child or maybe my child just needs a different tactic. And that person would quickly put any negative thoughts aside and start the new approach.

OR are you saying a parent with self-acceptance would not even consider they played a role in the good or bad of their child and just lay all the good and bad on the fault of the child....cause that is almost what it sounds like.

I know that was just an example so ...taking another scenario like the boss yelling at you for a poorly done project. I just don't see how anyone wouldn't blame themselves. I mean you could look at it like, the boss didn't give me good direction and just blame it all on the boss but that doesn't sound healthy either...sort of like denial.
The concept of self-acceptance did not exist within me. It was/is a foreign and alien idea I am learning about. I had been trained by my childhood to respond and expect my Worthwhileness from other people, for good or bad. I never thought about it, I never questioned it. It was so much a part of who I was/am that never even a whisper of questioning it ever entered my conscious mind.

Does this help any . . .

Honestly, I still don't see any difference in self-esteem, self-acceptance or self-worth. I still see them as the same.

In other words, using those same parenting scenarios, if I had poor self-esteem I'd react the same as I would with poor self-acceptance, wouldn't I?

I know you said you had to read that chapter over and over to get it so I'm hoping if I think about this a light bulb will go off. Honestly, I'm trying to wrap my brain around this, really I am. [/quote]

To take the JJ's question first, with SA, if someone said something about your child you knew to be inaccurate/false, you would say to that person, ''Thanks for your interest, I'm concerned about my child and their behavior also. I'll look into that''. And just drop it from there.

From the SE angle, it would be something like, ''I'm a terrible parent, what must that person think of me and my child.'' Then you'd get all in your childs face with, ''What's wrong with you, don't you know how what you did made ME look, why can't you be more like so- and -so''. And on and on.


I'l try to remember to bring the book in tomorrow.

[misty]

john said:

I'l try to remember to bring the book in tomorrow.

Good idea!

[charliegirl]

Hey John! Instead of thinking of Misty and JJ as royal pains in the behinders, consider them the goads you need to keep you searching for all the info you will need for that selp help book you can write, you know, the one that will make you rich and famous!

[jj]

charliegirl said:

Hey John! Instead of thinking of Misty and JJ as royal pains in the behinders, consider them the goads you need to keep you searching for all the info you will need for that selp help book you can write, you know, the one that will make you rich and famous!

Well, at least you made us "royal" pains and not just your average pains in the behind.

[charliegirl]

Well, I know you both and you qualify as royalty in my book.